Am I the biggest fool ever? Please help!

kin402

Cadet
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
10
We decided to make the leap and purchase our first boat -- knowing very little about it.

We picked up a 1977 17.5 ft Mark Twain Bowrider with the Mercruiser 888 (180hp?). The
interior is in fair condition for its age: some duct tape on a few seats, the captain's chair has been changed out with one that does not match, and the vinyl is pretty weathered.

We were led to believe that it had a small oil leak but was otherwise water-ready.
After taking it to 2 mechanics, we are now replacing a water pump, adding a new bellows kit (there was a hole in one of the bellows), and possibly getting into an upper gearcase issue.

The trailer also had to have new barrings on both wheels.

But maybe worst of all: there seems to be a cracked engine block? ... BUT both mechanics agreed that it doesn't appear to have impacted the running of the engine.
How is that even possible?

All that said, I thought I'd come to you -- the experts on all things boat -- for possibly some support, but probably, for some straight-talking. Did we get taken?

What would be the most that you would have paid for such a boat? or better yet -- knowing all we now know -- what is it worth?

We made the decision (possibly throwing good money after bad) to fix the water pump, bellows kit, and trailer.

Should we admit defeat, cut our ever-increasing losses, and move on?
 

Unforcefull Force

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
128
Re: Am I the biggest fool ever? Please help!

It is possible to get into this situation no matter what used boat you would have purchased. It is also possible that the guy didn't know that all of that stuff was wrong too. I know a few people that bought a boat for the first time, and instead of checking into how they were supposed to maintain it, they just cruised it. He could have been someone like that... Then sold it! Some people aren?t mechanically inclined either; they don't know when something is broken. If you start thinking now that you've gotten taken, it is only going to aggravate you very much. Just try to keep a positive mind and move forward! Fix the boat and you'll love it! If he did know about the problems, what goes around comes around...He will have to pay for it later!

Another thing, boating can be an expensive hobby. You are always going to have something break or go wrong with any boat. Be prepared but also remember, if it makes you happy, it is priceless! Fix the boat and you can always sell it after you get some usage out of it. Make sure you are straight forward if you do sell it...

Even if you cruise it for a season or two, and sell it for half of the money that you put into it, the good times that it will have created for you will be worth every penny!

A boat like that around here, WITH the unknown problems would probably sell for AROUND $2000.00

I?ve seen people pay more for less though!

How much did you spend? How much do you have into it now TOTAL?

-Mark
 

Cuyose

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jan 19, 2006
Messages
90
Re: Am I the biggest fool ever? Please help!

Well you can look at it this way, the water pump, and bellows are maintenance items and unless they caused some other issues due to thier current condition, having them redone is an expense you would have run into eventually anyhow.

Your cracked block is another issue. If you had a couple mechanics say its not interfering with the operation, I am guessing its probably a freeze crack on the outside of the block. So water is still cooling (check engine oil and make sure it looks good, not milky at all.)

If you describe where the crack is, how long, how much it's leaking , etc. I think you will find a ton of other posts that go over successful JB weld or braising type repairs for this type of crack.

So overall, unless you find out the outdrive is trashed due to the bellows leak, you might be ok.
 

Wes Hawkins

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
32
Re: Am I the biggest fool ever? Please help!

Kin402
Well I don't think your alone in this situation. I think is all has to do with what you originally paid for the boat and what you have to put into it compared to what a comparable boat in the condition yours will be in when done would cost. Outdrive work your probably going to have to do anyway regardless of what you get, if for no other reason other than just to know that its been done. I'm relatively new to this boating thing and have gone through the same same. I bought a boat late last year and didn't use it much, had buyers remorse knowing I probably paid to much. Knowing I would probably have to go through the drive this year I chose to sell it. I started looking for another boat and found one the same year for a third the price that needs some work, mostly mechanical. I'm an auto tech so I am doing all the work my self, most the work on the engine is the same as a car, the outdrive with be a learning experience. I will be into this boat for about half what its worth so I'm money ahead. I think if you can't afford a new boat This is the way to go. Get what your happy with, get it fixed up the way you want it and enjoy it.
Good luck and have fun, take care, Wes.

P/S The folks on this web site are great and will help with just about everything. They sure were helpful with me and my stupid question over the last year.
 

Bifflefan

Commander
Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
2,933
Re: Am I the biggest fool ever? Please help!

What would be the most that you would have paid for such a boat? or better yet -- knowing all we now know -- what is it worth?

If I were looking to buy it (from your discription) with no water test, and forgetting that I have made more than one less than perfect purchase in my life. I would say $800 would have been my top dollar, if I could hear it run on the hose.

As for the rest like the bellows and impeller, those you have to do every couple years, get used to that. If you mean the main water pump that is still a somewhat normal issue same as a car.
Crack in the block, Ceramic Seal it and call that done. Doesnt sound like its a big deal.

Fix it and enjoy, When you go to buy another one take it for a ride before you buy, also you will be much wiser in what to look for.
 

paultjohnson

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
1,560
Re: Am I the biggest fool ever? Please help!

Tough call... The first thing you will learn is what BOAT stands for- Bring Over Another Thousand Ha Ha HE HE My big concern would be the cracked block It depends on where it cracked as to how fatal it is to the engine A minor crack on the exterior of the engine may just result in a water drip/leak into the bildge A crack on the inside could allow water into the cylinders which could result in the water constantly washing the oil off the cylindere walls The piston would scorch the cylinder wall and sooner or maybe later you will lose compresion in that cylinder You may also end up with water in the crankcase mixing with the oil and lose your lubrication value thruout the engine FATAL. You may be able to by some time if the crack isnt severe by running some stop leak [ available in the engine overhaul in a can section at any auto parts store, many brands to choose from] thru your crankcase and water cooling system I dont know if you have a closed cooling system, if so easy- dump stop leak in. If not you would have to put your drive in a big tub or trash can so it could recirc the water/stop leak mixture. I admit its a half assed, buy some time fix. Ive worked on alot of old engines , mostly auto, but sometimes that stuff works magic, sometimes not. A cheap option. But its just an option you could consider. Best of luck
 

DANZIG

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
117
Re: Am I the biggest fool ever? Please help!

"Am I the biggest fool ever? "

Of course you are,,, You bought a boat!!

That alone marks you as a nut, but most of us have learned to live with, and indeed enjoy, our insanity.
 

Wingedwheel

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
1,071
Re: Am I the biggest fool ever? Please help!

Danzig, you couldn't have said it better...
 

whitjohn

Cadet
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
23
Re: Am I the biggest fool ever? Please help!

How competent are the mechanics...here's why I ask.....normally, like stated above, a cracked block is the end of an engine....sooner or later.

Also the marine exhaust manifolds are water cooled and if not winterized they will surely crack if they freeze. So, I am wondering if they are (possibly)mistaking a cracked manifold for a cracked block since they agree it's not affecting the running. Even a crack into the water jacket on the block will leak quite a bit once the engine gets to operating temp......

I had a manifold crack on a boat I used to have... 1989 SeaRay 4.3 Mercruiser. I took it off, ground out the crack and welded it shut. Guy I sold it to is still running it.
 

tmcalavy

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
4,005
Re: Am I the biggest fool ever? Please help!

Caveat emptor...never buy without a water test.
 

BAproject

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
276
Re: Am I the biggest fool ever? Please help!

Just figured I would chime in here....

Welcome KIN402! I am a 1 year rookie to this forum and have found the knowledge base to be an asset!

Just a quick story to put you at ease. I bought my little Bayliner for $500 ('91). I knew nothing about boats and just fell in love with her, just sitting there in poor poor shape. But I could see her beauty! I had the guy trailer it to my house and began work....I had the boat for a year before I was able to bring it out for sea trials. In that year I spent plenty of cash, stopping when I had to recharge the "bank"...and then back to it. I worked hard and learned a lot.

Then it was ready, I was like a kid on the first day of school. I splashed her....everything that could go wrong almost did. (stuck in reverse, hole in the boat, overheat, then wouldn't start)

I was able to run at WOT for 2 minutes (40+MPH) and in that 2 minutes it was all worth it, every penny and every hour.

Moral of the story....yep you're crazy (as stated earlier in this post) and be patient...it all pays off in the end...if you love the boat then that's what matters...they are expensive :)

-BAproject
 

KC4YIN

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Sep 6, 2009
Messages
91
Re: Am I the biggest fool ever? Please help!

I was able to run at WOT for 2 minutes (40+MPH) and in that 2 minutes it was all worth it, every penny and every hour.

Moral of the story....yep you're crazy (as stated earlier in this post) and be patient...it all pays off in the end...if you love the boat then that's what matters...they are expensive

Yes!! The above is very true. Go for it!!!!!
 

The Famous Grouse

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
291
Re: Am I the biggest fool ever? Please help!

I think you have to look at it this way. You bought a 33 year old boat that's in fair to poor condition by the sounds of things. You made some mistakes due to inexperience. You didn't water test, you assumed the seller's claims of "cheap fixes" and "small problems" without confirming that that was really the case. And worst of all, you didn't get price advice BEFORE you bought it.

So what would you do if it were a 33 year old car? I'm not talking about a classic, I'm talking just a plain 77 Ford or Dodge? Would you put more money into it just to get it running?

It's not really relevant what we'd pay for it. The point is the fact that you paid $X or $Y doesn't make it any better of an idea to keep pouring money down a rat hole.

Cut your losses. For what I suspect it's going to cost you to seriously fix up this boat, you could buy a much better one in much better condition.

Sorry to deliver bad news, but I don't want to give you a bunch of happy talk and encourage you to throw good money after bad.

Grouse
 

haulnazz15

Captain
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
3,720
Re: Am I the biggest fool ever? Please help!

Well, part of the issue lies with how much the boat is worth in good condition. This MT, is probably worth absolutly no more than $4K in good condition. The question is, do you think you can find another boat in the 4K range that won't have it's problems like this one?

I will give you my case/example with my Mark Twain. We have had this MT for 15+ years. It's a 76 20' open bow with a 351w. Not too different from your setup at all. We had a transom rot issue, despite the boat having less than 500 hours on it and stored in garages/barns on the trailer it's whole life. At that point we had a decision to make: do we repair the transom, or sell it as is and get probably 3K for it and buy another boat? Well, we figured that the boat was otherwise in excellent condition and to find another boat of this quality/size would probably cost us $6K+. So we decided to repair the transom ourselves to save money on labor and go back in with a composite transom.

Fast forward to a year later, we had the new transom in, but the original engine had gotten water in it and seized up. Decision time again: sell it as is for maybe 1K at the most, or spend 3-4K and put a new engine/upgrade everything while we're at it. We went with the new engine. So basically, we ended up spending that $6K in the end that it would have cost us to buy a used boat of similar size/quality.

HOWEVER, and here's the point I'm making: Our boat now has a rot-proof transom, and a brand new engine, trim pump, etc making the boat brand new aside from wiring and interior material (which looks new BTW). There is no way that we could buy a boat for 6K that would hold a candle to what I have now, and we know this boat and all of its problems (or lack thereof now). For 6K, we would have bought another boat, and it would have had it's share of issues too.

So it's decision time for you. Do you want to rebuild the boat with all of it's known problems for a few grand, or do you want to try to find another boat with hopefully less problems for that few grand? It's a tougher call in your place than it was for me because we had a boat that was, other than the transom/engine, in impecable condition.

Sorry for the long post, but just giving you some things to think about.
 
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