The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

[lmannyr]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Agree. No need to send irrelevant info. Patients..... is key. Like everyone has stated above, get the request for this IN WRITING with a REASON.

Document, Document, Document!!

Good luck.

 

[bigfish17]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I hear you guys but Progressive is telling me they can't move forward without that info...

 

[freddyray21]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

they will tell you that, but it is not true. The only reason for asking for bank account records and cell phone records is to see if there is a case or claim to be made that you had your boat stolen. No other reason. I would contact an attorney. The first visit is free and see what they have to say. You would be surprised how quickly this gets resolved with a call from an attorney.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I know you want to get this taken care of as quickly as possible, but in all honesty, I'd bet the insurance company doesn't care how long it takes. Time is on their side,,, and they know it.

Take the weekend, think it over, talk to some people who you trust, consult an attorney. Sending it off on Friday isn't going to do anything but having your records sitting in the post office for the whole weekend, time you can use to think over your situation.

 

[MrBossman]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Make them request the information with their reason in writing before you sign or send them anything. Believe NOTHING said on the phone until you get a letter repeating it and signed by a company agent. Dont forget the insurance company knows all of the tricks and you dont. Also dont let them rush you. Doing something quick before you have studied over the entire deal puts them at an advantage.Dont drop your guard. I know how insurance companys operate,I was once an insurance broker and have been in several law suits against some insurance companys,won a few and lost a few.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Unless your comfortable releasing personal information to a third party, or who knows who else, I'd say it may be time to call a lawyer.
I can't see it being legal for them to demand such info without a court order, and unless they outright accuse you of fraud, and prove to a judge the likely hood that you have committed insurance fraud, that's not going to happen. I've dealt with nasty insurance companies in the past, it don't get better, it will get worse long before you see any money for your boat.

So long as you weren't behind in payments on your boat or other, there's nothing they have to gain by looking. Unless your policy or contract states that such information is specifically required, and you signed it, then they don't need it, short of a criminal accusation.

You paid for insurance to protect you from criminals, not to be treated like one. The last I heard, you are still presumed innocent until proven guilty. They seem to be trying to find a way to prove you guilty of something.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

With all due respect to a number of well-intentioned but not well-informed opinions that have been posted which are suggesting that bigfish17 get involved in a hardball contest with a large insurance company, you are not doing him any favours.
No-one would suggest that he just roll over and take whatever they decide to do, but this is potentially a $70K + payout and no insurance company would regard that as small potatoes?.well OK, maybe Lloyd?s of London )
They are bound to do a reasonably thorough investigation as simple due diligence. The premiums that we all pay depend on this.

There have been a number of posts stating beyond question that he has no requirement to provide any info and he is somehow being victimized, and if he called the state authority having jurisdiction, they would set him straight!
Well, guess what?

I just called the State Commissioners office and they said that I need to comply with whatever they ask...

The two good pieces of advice so far are :
1) Document everything?.especially requests by the insurance company and your responses to them.
2) If you are not comfortable with the process, consult an attorney.

Everything else is just going get your file put in the slow lane. It has been three weeks if I read the first post correctly, and that is not a long time for these matters.

I have a friend who insists on the confrontational approach with just about everyone. Police, license agents, and even revenue Canada (our IRS) . He can?t seem to understand why he never gets a break on a ticket, gets poor service, gets audited?.etc.

If you want the insurance folks to cooperate with you, it works both ways.
And if confidentiality of information is your concern, any insurance company in Canada that allowed any info provided to it, in confidence, to be misused would be liable to penalties that would make this claim seem like loose change.
The US is even more rigorous than are we.

 

[bigfish17]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Well, I spoke to an attorney this morning...

He pretty much told me that if I have nothing to hide I should co-operate, otherwise they can drop the claim and cite the part of the agreement where it says that "I will co-operate with whatever they need".

He also told me that if after 2 weeks they don't resolve or pay the claim then I can sue them. But in the meantime I should go by the rules.

I guess that's what I'm going to do as I don't see much of a choice now...

 

[bigfish17]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

With all due respect to a number of well-intentioned but not well-informed opinions that have been posted which are suggesting that bigfish17 get involved in a hardball contest with a large insurance company, you are not doing him any favours.
No-one would suggest that he just roll over and take whatever they decide to do, but this is potentially a $70K + payout and no insurance company would regard that as small potatoes?.well OK, maybe Lloyd?s of London )
They are bound to do a reasonably thorough investigation as simple due diligence. The premiums that we all pay depend on this.

There have been a number of posts stating beyond question that he has no requirement to provide any info and he is somehow being victimized, and if he called the state authority having jurisdiction, they would set him straight!
Well, guess what?



The two good pieces of advice so far are :
1) Document everything?.especially requests by the insurance company and your responses to them.
2) If you are not comfortable with the process, consult an attorney.

Everything else is just going get your file put in the slow lane. It has been three weeks if I read the first post correctly, and that is not a long time for these matters.

I have a friend who insists on the confrontational approach with just about everyone. Police, license agents, and even revenue Canada (our IRS) . He can?t seem to understand why he never gets a break on a ticket, gets poor service, gets audited?.etc.

If you want the insurance folks to cooperate with you, it works both ways.
And if confidentiality of information is your concern, any insurance company in Canada that allowed any info provided to it, in confidence, to be misused would be liable to penalties that would make this claim seem like loose change.
The US is even more rigorous than are we.

What you said makes a lot of sense and I just posted while you were writing your post what my options are at this moment.

I will try and co-operate first and react later if they try to screw me. That seems to be the only intelligent way right now...

I will definitely keep all you guys posted and I thank you all for your responses an your help...

 

[lkbum]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Speaking with the attorney probably made you feel better (at least I hope it did) and you know your next step which is to give them the documents, attach a letter to these asking them to provide, in writing, what steps/procedures they will now do and the time frame they expect them to take. Provided they move forward with a settlement, it's extremely important to understand the coverage you have and what you can expect. You settlement offer should be in writing, they will discuss it with you and expect you to agree over the phone. Ask them to fax it to you , or go pick it up at their office. It may be a fair offer, but I would compare it to your agreed value policy and see if it's what they owe you, after all it's what you were paying for. You may want to show your offer and policy to the attorney you spoke with..... His/Her opinion will cost $200 to $300, but will be well worth the peace of mind. On my claim with Progressive, which was considerably less than yours (the waverunner theft), we started about 30% apart. Progressive tried to "negotiate".. I told them in wirting, I would NOT negotiate, they owed me for my loss and that's what I would take. It took about two weeks, but they final offered about 95% of what I was seeking, I took this.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Sounds like you have a plan of action.

And just to be a jerk, remember, all the guys telling you to ask for stuff in writing... well, if you are lying or committing any fraud in your writings, you will add Federal charges. I know you aren't doing anything wrong, but be advised that making fraudulent statements through the mail seems to really upset Fedral Law Enforcement authorities.

 

[MrBigStuff]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

My insurance company became adamant that the truck was fixable for the $7,000 and sent me a check in that amount. On the front of the check was a statement that said that endorsement of the check would constitute agreement that the amount would be full and final payment. I crossed that out and wrote on the back of the check, right above where I would sign it, "endorsement and/or cashing of this check DOES NOT constitute agreement that this payment represents full and final payment of any claim with "XYZ" insurance company." I then deposited the money.

Danger Will Robinson!
In some jurisdictions, the memo line is binding and you cannot just scratch it out and put your own stipulations in their place. Good chance that would not hold up in a court of law and you'd be out any further compensation. I would think carefully (and verify) before taking this type of advice/action.

 

[bigfish17]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Sounds like you have a plan of action.

Yes...

and lots of prayer...

 

[lkbum]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Sounds like you have a plan of action.

And just to be a jerk, remember, all the guys telling you to ask for stuff in writing... well, if you are lying or committing any fraud in your writings, you will add Federal charges. I know you aren't doing anything wrong, but be advised that making fraudulent statements through the mail seems to really upset Fedral Law Enforcement authorities.

Yep, that's being a jerk. I think all the advice was to ask THEM to put it in writing..... Just what insurance company do you work for? And who said for him to put anything in writing that would be construed as lying or fraud. Yep, definetly a jerk. I notice that Bigboneli hasn't followed up lately... I guess it's time for him to chime in again.

 

[MrBossman]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Sounds like you have a plan of action.

And just to be a jerk, remember, all the guys telling you to ask for stuff in writing... well, if you are lying or committing any fraud in your writings, you will add Federal charges. I know you aren't doing anything wrong, but be advised that making fraudulent statements through the mail seems to really upset Fedral Law Enforcement authorities.

Phone calls are nice but they are just that phone calls........can never be used as proof in any court case....being honest is required of course and having it in writing is the only alternative to a phone call unless you want them to fax everything.Business is business and documenting things is good business

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Yep, that's being a jerk. I think all the advice was to ask THEM to put it in writing..... Just what insurance company do you work for? And who said for him to put anything in writing that would be construed as lying or fraud. Yep, definetly a jerk. I notice that Bigboneli hasn't followed up lately... I guess it's time for him to chime in again.

Actually lkbum, I was trying to help. I used to work for Westfield Insurance company, and they never tried to play games. Unlike 90% of the claimants and 60% of the insureds, who flat out LIE about the extent of their damages or injuries. You try having a job where no one is happy to see you, cause something bad just happened to them. And then have that same person who is being rude, look you in the eye, and lie, telling you that the red paint on their left fender is from the accident where your insured's green car hit their rear bumper. If you had any idea of the CARP that insurance adjusters put up with everyday... well, you'd still be a jerk about it. But most people would kinda understand.
You are saying for the insurance company to put stuff in writing cause you just "know" they are lying to him on the phone. I am illustrating the other side, when he starts putting stuff in writing, that it better be 100% accurate.
How many of you know that if you lie or misrepresent facts about one thing pertaining to your claim, then your whole claim is fraudulant? Most carriers don't enforce their policy language to that extreme, but from the sounds of it, Progressive would/will in this case. So if that fish finder was a last year's model, better not say it was the latest and greatest, cause that's fraud.
That's just a technical warning to bigfish to be careful, cause it does seem like his carrier is looking for a way to deny coverage. Even if his finances aren't great, I still don't see how it "proves" that he had the boat stolen. With no direct physical evidence, or records of payments to a known boat thief, I don't see how they can deny the coverage. But they sure seem like they are trying. But remember, this is probably the 25th boat that's been "stolen" in the last month, so they have to make sure.

 

[lkbum]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

TilliamWe,
Granted... Sorry for the harshness of my reply.... I guess it's hard to see the other side from my experience (and only with Progressive).. Now that you've clarified your posts, I would say it's excellent advice and in no way was it a "jerk" comment. Please accept my apology. Fraudulent insurance claims hurt everyone. My dealings with Progressive were horrific and once I asked them to put things in writing, they did and I believe it helped the process and alleviated some of my stress, and I imagine bigfish17 is pretty stressed out at the moment.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I accept your apology and I apologize for implying that you would still be a jerk even if you walked a mile or two in an adjuster's shoes.
Bigfish, good luck to you. I'll say a silent prayer to the great Insurance Underwriter in the ground that he makes sure Progressive is just being thorough and not trying to be unfair to you! Best of luck. I know you'll keep us posted.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

IMO, you absolutely should not send Pregressive things like your bank statements and cell phone records. They are, in effect, trying to put you on trial in the Progressive Insurance Court of Getting Out of Claims.

I recommend that you thoroughly read your policy to see if you agreed to any such provision of information in the event of a claim. Even if you did, the applicable clauses may be contrary to law in your state. A call to your state insurance comissioners office may provide some information on that matter. Contracts with unenforceable clauses in them are very common. Sadly, its also very common for people not to know, that just because something is in an agreement, doesn't mean that they can be forced to comply with it.

Depending on what kind of answer you get on this issue, I would be thinking about sending Progressive a Certified Letter, with RRR, demanding that they settle the claim immediately. Give them about ten business days to do so and tell them if they don't, you will sue for payment on the boat, damages, attorney's fees, and court costs.


PS: I just skipped back and the post where you noted that you had spoken to an attorney, who told you to go ahead and give up the info. He may or may not be right. Having engaged many attorneys in my business career, I have run across more than a few who will make statements like that when they just don't want to deal with something. My bet is that if you had walked into the attorney's office and said, "here's a $5,000 retainer - I'm not giving these bozos my bank statements and cell phone records," he'd have said darn right, I'll take care of it.

I'm not surprised with the clause in your cotract that says you have to "cooperate." The question, however, is just want does that mean? Why do you have to send this info to them. If you really do, why can you not demand a confidentiality agreement. Why can't you agree to make the records available to them in your attorney's office for their inspection, with no permission to make copies, etc. This is your personal information and the second you give it to someone else, you have no control over it unless you take steps otherwise. Also, these are all things that you would be likely to do if represented. The bottom line is that they have no reason to think you have cheated them and their objective absolutely is to get out of a claim. All the kind words here about insurance companies aside, that's what they do. To assume anything else is to be naive.

 

[bigfish17]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I have all the documents in a manila envelope on my kitchen counter but haven't send it yet.

Reason being that another lawyer I spoke to said he didn't like what they're doing and doesn't agree with them asking for those papers and asked me to see him Monday to bring him my agreement.

Now I'm more confused because one lawyer said to co-operate and the other said it was wrong of Progressive to do that.

I'll take the weekend to decide what to do. I don't really want to **** off the insurance copmpany and have them deny my claim because I'm not co-oerating. OTOH, the other lawyer said they're screwing with me so I just don't know anymore...