The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

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bigfish17

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

The insurance company cannot refuse to pay you just because they don't want to. They have to act in good faith. If Progressive ends up denying your claim, I'd imagine your attorney will throw in a bad faith suit.

I just think that you should cooperate. I don't know how you've been treating them, but if you came accross like a jerk to them, they could just be keeping you on the back burner to be jerks too.

Just for the record, I have been nice and respectful to them from the very beginning. They don't even have that against me...

In fact, my lawyer wants to sue them already cause he thinks they're definitely acting in bad faith. Not returning his calls, correspondence, ignoring his requests etc...not to mention the length of time this is taking.

It's me that's been holding off from a lawsuit because I'd like to believe they're not going to screw me. The only thing at this point I'm unsure about is giving them all my financial records...

The other thing that totally pisses me off is that they just won't declare the boat a total loss. For some reason that only "they" know, they won't do that and until they do it's forcing me to keep making payments.

My attorney said today to stop making payments and to also stop making the insurance payments. But the bank said they will inform the credit bureaus if I'm 30 days late which doesn't seem too fair...
 

Nandy

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Did your lawyer really told you to stop making payments to the bank!!! :-0 What?, is he hoping to represent you too when proving the bank and the Credit bureau that it was not your fault and to clear your credit? Im glad that lawyer is coming from a good source otherwise I will be very worry of him.... Sounds like a litigation happy lawyer $$$..
 

jay_merrill

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

OK, the lawyer says its time to sue. What that says to me is that its time for you to naildown the terms of the suit. Ask him if he'll do it on contingency ask whether he will forgo fees if he can't get enough out of Progressive to cover them. You'll find out "right quick" if you have a solid claim or not. If he agrees in regard to fees and costs, I would take that back burner, put it directly under Progressive's behind, turn it up all the way, and light it.
 

bigfish17

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Did your lawyer really told you to stop making payments to the bank!!! :-0 What?, is he hoping to represent you too when proving the bank and the Credit bureau that it was not your fault and to clear your credit? Im glad that lawyer is coming from a good source otherwise I will be very worry of him.... Sounds like a litigation happy lawyer $$$..

I was a bit surprised that he told me that because the bank told me that until they get something in writing that it's declared total then it's "business as usual" and I should keep paying...

OK, the lawyer says its time to sue. What that says to me is that its time for you to naildown the terms of the suit. Ask him if he'll do it on contingency ask whether he will forgo fees if he can't get enough out of Progressive to cover them. You'll find out "right quick" if you have a solid claim or not. If he agrees in regard to fees and costs, I would take that back burner, put it directly under Progressive's behind, turn it up all the way, and light it.

I'm going to wait until my new "under oath statement" in 2 weeks and see what happens then. By that time, their investigation should be over. If they don't pay then, then I will sue them.

I'm really hoping they're just stalling because I can't believe they would risk losing more when they don't have anything on me except less than average financials.

According to my attorney, they can't deny the claim based on suspicion. They would have to link me to the crime, so in essence, they don't have anything and I don't have anything to hide so I will give them what they ask for, even if on paper my numbers don't look as good as previous years. I've been worrying that they're gonna make something out of nothing but I can't go on like this anymore and I have to move forward.

They want all these papers 3 days before my statement so I suppose they're gonna quiz me on my income and financials but like I said, I have nothing to hide and eventually they're gonna run out of excuses...
 

freddyray21

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

The insurance company cannot refuse to pay you just because they don't want to. They have to act in good faith. If Progressive ends up denying your claim, I'd imagine your attorney will throw in a bad faith suit.

I just think that you should cooperate. I don't know how you've been treating them, but if you came accross like a jerk to them, they could just be keeping you on the back burner to be jerks too.

you are correct they cannot just because they don't want to. They can refuse to pay a claim for what they believe is good cause. By investigating they are determining whether they believe enough good cause exists to withstand a court fight. They don't have to pay a claim ever. As stated they do most of the time as there does not exist good cause.

For example, if your boat is rated for 100 hp and you put 150 horses on it and have an accident. The insurance company can use that as good cause not to pay a claim. Will they? I don't know, but they can.
 

jay_merrill

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

They don't have to pay a claim ever.



I think that is a bit of an overstatement. It is true that insurance companies are famous for clauses in contracts that give them a lot of "wiggle room." That said, there are limits to the value of such clauses.

The insurance company, in this case Progressive, is party to an agreement and it must perform, just as the insured must perform. If Progressive alleges fraud, the burden of proof is on them, not BF. Absent that proof, Progressive must pay. If they refuse to pay, or refuse to pay in a timely manner, BF becomes damaged and has a right to sue them.

What goes on between the onset of the disagreement and a lawsuit becomes a matter of being reasonable. You don't want to get in front of a jury as a plaintiff and look guilty or unreasonable, so you give on a few things. As I stated previously, my own choice would be to give on the financials, with certain restrictions, but not give on the phone records. I also would not ask my GF to provide any information, unless she was a party to the loan and/or the insurance.

The fact of the matter is that there is a lot of money in play, so it isn't unreasonable for Progressive to want to check a few things out. That said, they don't get to play games forever, because doing so will eventually put them in the losers position. At that point, the lawsuit which seeks payment under the policy, attorney's fees, expenses, court costs and damages, comes into play. Given the propensity of juries to "spank" corporations who abuse "the little guy," Progressive would be very stupid to let this thing go that far.
 

Cptkid570

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

For example, if your boat is rated for 100 hp and you put 150 horses on it and have an accident. The insurance company can use that as good cause not to pay a claim. Will they? I don't know, but they can.


If you tell your insurance company that you have a 100hp motor on it and it really has 150, that that's concealment or misrepresentation and the insurance company can refuse to pay a claim. But, if it's rated for 100hp and it has 150hp and you told them on your insurance application that it has 150 hp, then they'd have to pay the claim.

When you pay for an insurance policy, you have a contract with the insurance company. You all have a copy of your policy. You need to read it. The claims adjuster reads it. Just because he knows it better than you doesn't make the insurance company the bad guy. They have a right to investigate a claim. All they are doing in this case is investigating it. If they sent that reservation of rights letter to out, then they may be able to take more time to investigate it. Just be patient and if you have nothing to hide, then don't hide anything.
 

freddyray21

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I think the point I am trying to make is missed here. Just because you have insurance it does not mean the company has to pay if they feel they have good reason not to. 99% of the time they don't and pay the claim. The other 1% usually goes to court. The court is full of them.
 

mphy98

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

My attorney said today to stop making payments and to also stop making the insurance payments. But the bank said they will inform the credit bureaus if I'm 30 days late which doesn't seem too fair...[/QUOTE]

DO NOT STOP MAKING PAYMENTS!!!!!!!!!!! IT WILL AFFECT YOUR CREDIT RATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know this because my wife and I own a finance company. until they are paid by you or the insurance company, you are obligated to make payments. I cannot tell you how many times i could not get people a loan because some attorney told them not to pay for something. We just had an older couple walk away from a park model camper because they just didn't like it anymore. It got sold for a big loss and now their bank account just got seized to make up the difference. this totally destroyed their credit. Please do not do this to yourself. You signed the promissory note(loan) not the insurance company, therefore the only one obligated to the note is you, not your insurance company. contrary to public opinion (and some sleazy lawyers:D not making payments because of a possible loss does not make the bank put pressure on the insurance company. sue the company yes, but remember to make payments until you get the money. otherwise the only one you will hurt will be yourself. bob
 

Hitech

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Instead of not making the payments you could include the interest paid in the demand amount if you sue them, or the amount extra necessary for you to accept a settlement.
 

Cptkid570

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I think the point I am trying to make is missed here. Just because you have insurance it does not mean the company has to pay if they feel they have good reason not to. 99% of the time they don't and pay the claim. The other 1% usually goes to court. The court is full of them.

One of my best friends is an insurance claims adjuster and he laughed when he read this. This is the most uninformed comment I've seen on Iboats. If insurance companies didn't pay 99% of their claims, then noone would carry insurance. Look up on the internet and see how much money in claims insurance companies have paid out for hurricanes alone.

The company I work for had water damage to their wood floors due to an overflowed air handler. The claims adjuster was the nicest guy and they paid to put new floors and baseboards in without any hassles at all.
 

QC

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

He meant 99% of the time they DO pay the claim. Not worded well but that's what I got from it . . . ;)
 

freddyray21

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

exactly what I mean't 99% of the time they pay. 1% they don't.
 

Cptkid570

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Sorry Freddy, I misread it. My bad.

I think that if they do pay for the claim most of the time, then just provide them with what they are looking for and wait them out.. they'll eventually complete their investigation and pay up.
 

freddyray21

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I think too they will eventually pay, but they are going to make you jump through hoops before making a large payout like that. Sad, but true.
 

jonesg

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

i'D get a new lawyer, this guy sounds like an idiot at every turn.
 

fishrdan

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I was settling a claim once and the claims rep sent me low ball offers,,, the day before Thanksgiving and the day before Christmas. Wasn't that nice :rolleyes:

Yep,,, let the games begin...

My crystal ball says he will be getting an offer in about.............. 4 days :rolleyes:
 

jay_merrill

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Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I agree that you should continue to make the payments on the boat. As omeone else mentioned, this is not the bank's problem. They are not going to be sympathetic, and will report the lack of payment to all the major credit bureaus.

Another reason to keep paying, is that failure to do so will just play into the hands of Progressive. They will see non-payment as a sign of financial stress, that they will think existed prior to the theft.

All of this said, if there is a legitimate reason why you have financial stress as a direct result of Progressive's negligent actions since the theft, and you must cease payments to the bank in order to avoid other problems, your attorney may have a point. He may feel that he can repair your credit later on, and that he can recoup losses, damages, etc., from Progressive. I've never run into a similar situation personally, so I can only offer a possible thought as to why you received this particular bit of advice. Perhaps you should ask him why he wants you to suspend payments, and what the ramifications of doing that, are.
 
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