The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

[bigfish17]

My boat was stolen about 2 weeks ago right from my driveway while I was home. I came out from my garage to walk my dogs and the boat wasn't there. I was completely shocked and just stood there for a few minutes figuring out what happened...

The boat was a 28' blue/white 2006 Hydra-Sports CC in mint condition with only 130 hours, Pro fishing package, C-80, Sony stereo on it and was insured by Progressive. The boat was found next day in the worst neighborhood in Miami stripped except for the t-top which they tried to get but probably run out of time. There's a big semi-circular gash around one of the pillars.

Right away, the guy I dealt with was not very compasionate or understanding and hassled me over the $50 storage fee. Then he wouldn't tow it to the nearest HS dealership and argued and harassed me because I wanted to take it to my dealer and not one of their repair shops within their network.

Finally after a lot of arguing I held firm and had it towed to my house because that's all he would pay for. I had to arrange to tow it accross the state to the nearest HS dealer on my dime.

He said that the boat was repairable even though it clearly had substantial damage. Anything of value was gone, all they left was the hull and t-top. I took it to the dealer for an estimate.

Forward to a week later, the insurance guy on the west coast of FL who does the estimates said the damages were in that grey area at around $70k and that if it was up to him he would declare it a total loss but now it's going back to their office in Miami to the other guy who wasn't that nice and they will make that decision.

So now I'm wondering...what would be the best course for action here.
1) Sit tight and let them decide
2) Call an attorney to help me get total loss
3) Work out a deal with them
4) Let them repair it and get back a patched up boat

It could go either way but I truly don't want the boat repaired and my wife is traumatized by the whole incident and having these guys come to our house again once it's fixed.

Does anybody have any experience or has had anything like that happened and what is the best thing to do here ???

 

[BaileysBoat]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Feel for you bigfish. We had a breakin (all my wifes jewellery and her wedding ring), small boat stolen, motor stolen, lightning strike ($9000 CA). But in the end the the insurance company always did right. Sound's like your first contact was with someone in the wrong job.

1. Be nice, but firm.
2. I would wait to see what they offer you.
3. If you get any attitude, see # 1, and go higher up the ladder.
4. Document everything.
5. See # 1., and be persistant. The insurance company wants to clear the file.

A lawyer is last resort.

 

[lkbum]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

I've had three incidents that required working with Progressive. One stolen Wave Runner and two car accidents where the other drivers were at fault. In ALL three cases, Progressive was an absolute nightmare to deal with. They drug their feat and constantly implied that I should accept less than what I considered reasonable. With regards to the stolen waverunner (probably of most interest to you), it was not located ( I had to wait 30 days im the middle of the summer) so they had to provide either a replacement or cash equiavalent. I repeatedly let them know that I would accept nothing short of a perfect replacement and wanted top $$ as the value of my waverunner ( we were about 30% apart initially). MOST importantly, I let them know I would not settle for less and that I was willing to wait. I also said they were unreasonable in all cases and would go to the state insurance commisioner with my complaints if I was not satisfied. Start building your case now. You may need to demonstrate value, condition prior to the theft etc. Be prepared to be accused of staging the theft as a motive to get rid of the boat (they will imply you had something to do with this because of bad boat market or your financial condition). Start asking them to put everything they do, including rationale in writing. You need to write them a letter stating your position and what you've discussed already. In it state the condition of your boat and an honest reason you do not want the boat repaired, hopefully a statement from a repair yard or two you choose to deal with. Get more than one repair estimate and insist on using the repair yard of your choice. Let them know, that a boat that has not been repaired would have infinite life and that a repaired boat will have structural repairs which will be limited by the warranty on the repairs. If they do end up repairing the boat, watch them like a hawk, they will use the absolute cheapest parts and methods available (in my car accidents this was the problem, but I was able to hold the threat and injury claims over their heads to prevent them from using after market inferior parts). Lastly, once you get the check and replace the boat, IMMEDIATELY change insurance carriers. I can almost guarantee they will cancel your policy shortly after you settle which will make getting a new policy some what of a pain. Sorry for your loss, and to anyone reading this, If you have progressive, you may want to switch to a more reputable carrier ( I now use Nationwide and on the only claim I've had (submerged obect hull and outdrive damage $2k) they were great. Cost a little more but well worth it).

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Keep taking the most defensive and combative approach, it'll work out exactly like you expect.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

"Let them know, that a boat that has not been repaired would have infinite life ..."

What planet are you from????

 

[bigboneli]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

"Let them know, that a boat that has not been repaired would have infinite life ..."

What planet are you from????

Had to log in and reply to that too...I bet nothing is your fault.

You ***** about waiting 30 days in the summer, but were 'willing to wait for the best' settlement. How jolly good of you.

Be prepared to be accused of staging the theft. (Your self proclaimed insurance rap speaks louder than anything I can bring up from your post.)

Hilarious how you have all the answers but no real help. As an outsider looking in, if I was in the insurance field, you would be on what I would quickly dub a 'black list'. Your little bit at the end about switching providers after you've squeezed them dry before they get sick of you was classic. And to state that you've milked your newest scam...ERRR insurance provider for a new i/o you probably left down proves my point.

P.S. ANY and ALL insurance companies will cost more the longer you screw them.

Bigfish sorry about your boat, keep at them, hope they come to their senses that a 70k boat can't be cut to the shell and rebuilt for under replacement cost, unless they're 'buying' the parts back. Sorry mostly for the advice some have given you.

 

[lkbum]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

"Let them know, that a boat that has not been repaired would have infinite life ..."

What planet are you from????

EARTH.. I think the OP would be most concerned about the hole cut in his boat where they tried to remove his T TOP. IF this area is repaired it will be subject to cracking and failure because the laminate has now been interupted and repaired with some type of patch. Had this area not been cut and repaired, I think the likelyhood of this type of failure would be remote at best, IE it would LAST FOREVER. The repair would NOT. I think that's what happens on the planet earth. And lastly, I didn't suggest being combative, I suggested the approach to take based on FIRST HAND experience dealing with Progressive on a similar claim (vessle theft). Go back and read the OP, does it seem like they are being receptive to resolving the situation. READ what he says about their reluctance to pay the storage fee and towing issues. This is the exact same experience I have had with Progressive in THREE different claims (one was my insurance, the other two on vehicles where they carried the insurance on the party at fault). Just how many times have YOU dealt with Progressive??? On earth of course... Or are you stating an opion based on gut feel??

 

[bigboneli]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

(they will imply you had something to do with this because of bad boat market or your financial condition).

That above quote made me almost pee myself.

And if you had bothered to READ THROUGH the original post, you would know his boat was stripped to the hull. Don't think he's worried about a cut around a t-top they didn't get to. I think he's worried about his boat being built from the ground up by someone other than the factory. Take your insurance scams elsewhere.

70k$ of damage isn't a new canvas or skeg. But you DID read the post before you started crying about YOUR problems, no?

 

[lkbum]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Had to log in and reply to that too...I bet nothing is your fault.

You ***** about waiting 30 days in the summer, but were 'willing to wait for the best' settlement. How jolly good of you.

Be prepared to be accused of staging the theft. (Your self proclaimed insurance rap speaks louder than anything I can bring up from your post.)

Hilarious how you have all the answers but no real help. As an outsider looking in, if I was in the insurance field, you would be on what I would quickly dub a 'black list'. Your little bit at the end about switching providers after you've squeezed them dry before they get sick of you was classic. And to state that you've milked your newest scam...ERRR insurance provider for a new i/o you probably left down proves my point.

P.S. ANY and ALL insurance companies will cost more the longer you screw them.

The thrity days was an issue, because Progressive would NOT EVEN address the claim for 30 days after the theft. After that they gave me a low ball offer that was 30% below NADA replacement cost (the waverunner was 1 year old so I think NADA was close). SInce I had already waited the thirty days, I told them I was prepared to wait them out until they made a reasonable offer. I was accused of staging the theft, had to give a recorded statement and was asked if I would take a polygraft. I sadi of course I would and provided released my bank account information to show I was not in financial straits. Like I said and I can stand by my statements from first hand experience, Progressive is the worst insurance company I have ever dealt with. Why don't YOU read what the OP said about the grief they have already given him on staorge on towing. One pays for insurance and expects to be covered. How many times have YOU dealt with Progressive??? All companies are not the same, as I said, I now have Nationwide, have had one claim with them and they were the exact opposite of Progressive. Try calling your agent and ask his opinion of Progressive, you might be surprised. And BTW the advice I offered was based on first hand experience that sounded surpirsing similar to the OP's experience with them to date. Just what do you base your advice on??

 

[lkbum]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

(they will imply you had something to do with this because of bad boat market or your financial condition).

That above quote made me almost pee myself.

And if you had bothered to READ THROUGH the original post, you would know his boat was stripped to the hull. Don't think he's worried about a cut around a t-top they didn't get to. I think he's worried about his boat being built from the ground up by someone other than the factory. Take your insurance scams elsewhere.

70k$ of damage isn't a new canvas or skeg. But you DID read the post before you started crying about YOUR problems, no?

Not crying just stating what happened to me.... And the advice I gave was based on my experience... and you??? The items from a stripped hull can be replaced, but a hole in the deck supporting the t-top will have to be repaired. I hope the OP continues this thread as he deals with Progressive. Maybe I'm wrong and they've gotten better. I bet not however, and will be willing to bet if the boat is totaled, his initial offer will be ridiculus. Why don't YOU re-read the post about his initial dealings already!!

 

[bigboneli]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Where I live, insurance companies don't compete with cable /phone/tv companies for primetime commercial spots..., Also, where I live, most of us can get through a good chunk of life without doing anything but paying our premiums...I'm glad that the companies you have run through in your life aren't available to me, as it would probably be reflected on my yearly premiums. The whole rotten egg thing.

Worst of all, you have totally hijacked this poor fellows thread all to hell to the point he's probably given up boating. Good work.

 

[lkbum]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Where I live... Worst of all, you have totally hijacked this poor fellows thread all to hell to the point he's probably given up boating. Good work.

Neither I and I'm sure the original poster care where you live. And based on his orignal post, I hope he reads my advice and takes it to heart when dealing with Progessive. It's based on first hand experience which is far from anything else I've read on this thread. And as far as hijacking the thread, there have been more response's, including yours which had nothing to do with adivce other than to state condolences. My advice was clear. Maybe you should re-read it in my original post.

 

[Cox]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

What is happening here?

I think bigboneli is a Progressive agent!

Heard a commercial recently that the Gecko now insures boats too....

....and they even give you a muffin with butter and jam!!

 

[fishrdan]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

....and they even give you a muffin with butter and jam!!

That's just a metaphor,,, they don't really give you a muffin with butter and jam

 

[ne7800]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Ok first of all lets get back to the problem at hand and stop the bickering! the insurance company telling you where you have to take your boat is called insurance steering and it is illegal. It is your decision where your boat is repaired not theres, as far as the towing and storage fees check over your policy it might state in there that they only pay to tow tow to certin points if not then send them a bill for the towing that was incured for the trip to the dealer. Most importantly READ your policy before your next conversation with them that way they can't bully you around and you know what your real options are

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Let's cool off some here guys.

 

[sundowner205]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

My best regards, fellow boater...I also had trouble with Progressive in 2005. I was run off the NYS Thru-way, I-90, by an 18 wheeler, and my 1 year old Land Cruiser was totaled. The adjuster was a total *******. He gave me hell from the beginning about the title being from out of state because I had just purchased it, would never return phone calls, and my credit score was almost lowered because Progressive took so long with the the total-loss payment because he didn't know how to do his job and petition for the title to be transferred to the insurance company. I ended up getting an attorney after 4 weeks...funny how the "problem" disappeared after that...

Point - I have heard nothing but horror stories about Progressive. I switched back to Nationwide and am never leaving them again. I have everything insured through them - 2 cars, 2 jet-skis, the boat, and my homeowner's policy. Couldn't be happier, have never had a problem with a claim through them...It goes to show you that you DO get what you pay for...

I hope everything works out for you. DO NOT let them steer or deter you to one of their "preferred repair facilities"...as mentioned in an previous post, it is illegal.

-Mark

 

[mtnrat]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

bigfish17, listen to lkbum, there is some good advice there. And welcome to iboats. It is usually not petty as this thread, but full of knowledgeable and helpful people. Keep us up to date with how things go.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

there has been a lot of ranting here.

1/ i would wait for their offer, in the mean time i would contact and attorney, in case you need one. don't start sueing as it will cost you in the ended. wait.

2/ as said above, if the offer is not agreeable, as for a supervisor, manager, even contact your personal agent.

3/ personally, in my claims, i have taken a cash settlement, and also i have had the item repaired at the facility of my choice.

4/ if not totalled, they may let you have it repaired at the place of your choice, and send the check made out to you and the repair shop. which you have to endorse, to the shop, after you are satisfied with the boat.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: The grey area when your boat gets stolen !!!

Ok first of all lets get back to the problem at hand and stop the bickering! the insurance company telling you where you have to take your boat is called insurance steering and it is illegal. It is your decision where your boat is repaired not theres, as far as the towing and storage fees check over your policy it might state in there that they only pay to tow tow to certin points if not then send them a bill for the towing that was incured for the trip to the dealer. Most importantly READ your policy before your next conversation with them that way they can't bully you around and you know what your real options are

This is pretty good advice. But they are not steering him. They have preferred providers in his area. As long as they are qualified to do the repairs his boat needs, then they are the "reasonable" place to tow the boat. I understand thinking it should go back to the selling dealer, but you'd be surprised how many dealerships can't and don't do that kind of repair. Insurance companies have these preferred providers in areas to make it convenient for people. Sometimes they are not the best choice, and adjusters can lose sight of that.

Now I am adressing the original poster specifically:
But if the local shop is a qualified marine repair facility, then they are not going to pay you for the tow across the state. You may have the boat repaired wherever you want, but you would be responsible for the additional costs to get it there and pick it up, sorry.

As far as the repair versus total loss, read your "loss settlement clause" in your policy. Do you even know how they will determine the value of your boat? Is it an agreed value policy on total loss? Is it ACV? Is it ACV on repair or do they not apply any depreciation? These are all things that you, as the policy holder, needed to know before you filed the claim.

As far as an attorney, you will have very little luck finding one that would take your case. Since this is a first party, contractual issue, there is no money to be made by the attorney. What I mean is, if there is 70k in repair needed, the value of the boat is 100k, the carrier has the option to pay either. But just cause you don't like their answer doesn't mean that they can throw in an extra 20k. So all hiring a lawyer will cost you is 33% of the contractual payment made by your insurer. Only loser is you in that case.

You state's department of Insurance is the agency that handles disputes between insurance carriers and their policyholders.

Also in your policy, under that loss settlement clause, there should be a section about settling disputed claims amounts, through an "appraisal process". Read it, study it, learn it, and know it. And if you can't understand it, ask your agent or even the claim rep.
Good luck