1998 Bayliner Trophy - Why can’t I just plug the scuppers?

dahlbergdriver

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
30
Water is coming into the boat when there is 4 adults and weight shifts to the back. Everyone’s feet get wet, and if someone has a bag on the deck, it’s an issue.

I see no need for these stupid things. I get their function, but I’d rather just plug them and manually bail out the water with a cut milk jug.

So I guess my question is - why not plug them From the inside? Alternatively, can I plug from the outside and run the scuppers from the deck into the bilge area and let the bilge do the work?
 

mike_i

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
879
take a look at T-H marine flow-max-ball scupper or redistribute the weight better?
 
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dingbat

Supreme Mariner
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Nov 20, 2001
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15,417
You don’t need them 99.9% of the time...but it’s that 0.01% chance that gets people in trouble or killed.

Look into the ping pong balls noted above
 

dahlbergdriver

Seaman Apprentice
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Jul 31, 2020
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30
Thanks guys. Dingbat - what’s the source of the danger? Boat filling with water and sinking? Where I am and how I use the boat, a ton of water in the boat is highly unlikely to happen (usually only go out on small inland lakes, minimal waves, never go out when raining).
 

Tassie 1

Chief Petty Officer
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Apr 13, 2018
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581
Your boat is. ( presumably ) a large boat, used on a freshwater lake in flat conditions yet is taking on enough water to get feet wet and also your friends possesions,

We have three boats in the 23- 30 ft range, used in coastal/ ocean waters, upto 45 knots and 3.5- 4 mt waves/swell/chop
Have never had anywhere near that amount of water come aboard in those conditions.

Hence the golly comment.

I think l will stay away from lakes.
 

Chris1956

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
27,036
I have the same issue. A boatload of people or a full fuel tank and water will get onto the deck and wet your feet. It is real bad when the air or water are cold.

I plug the scuppers with rubber crutch tips, while underway, but close to the fishing spot. They keep the water out while drifting or anchored.

They are easy to kick out of the scuppers if any water gets into the boat And we kick them out, after leaving for home.
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
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Nov 20, 2001
Messages
15,417
Where I am and how I use the boat, a ton of water in the boat is highly unlikely to happen
So is getting hit by lightening yet people still run for cover....

I've had standing water in the cockpit 3 times.

The first time I took a wake from what I assume was a passing boat (never saw it) over the windshield of a 20' cuddy cabin.

I got the bow swung around to take it head on but it rolled up and over the windshield filling the bilge to floor level. Shorting out the bilge pump and submerging the starter in the process. Shaken, I sold the boat soon there after for one with a self bailing cockpit.

The other two times I buried the bow in a following sea. Conditions where actually good. We ran 25 miles down Bay to "catch a bite" earlier in the day. In the mean time, the tide turned and rollers started to build for the trip home.

My bow is a good 50" above water line.... obviously not high enough to deal with steep, 6 to 8 foot rollers we encountered on the way back.

No matter which way you go, plugs or ping pong balls, keep in mind that water weighs #8 per gallon..... It doesn't take much to push a boat over it's weight capacity and swamp.
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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47,306
if you have water coming in the scuppers, your boat may already have compromised (water soaked) foam.


the scuppers should be far enough above the water line, that everyone should be able to stand in the back of the boat and you not take on water.


weigh the boat
 

KJM

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jul 31, 2016
Messages
1,186
if you have water coming in the scuppers, your boat may already have compromised (water soaked) foam.


the scuppers should be far enough above the water line, that everyone should be able to stand in the back of the boat and you not take on water.


weigh the boat

I was thinking the same thing, sounds like the boat is overloaded. Either a lot of wet foam/wood or some very large friends!
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
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Nov 20, 2001
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I was thinking the same thing, sounds like the boat is overloaded. Either a lot of wet foam/wood or some very large friends!
Flooding scuppers is the result of a pretty common design flaw". Some boats/brands are notorious for it.

https://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/mag...boats-sink.asp

The American Boat & Yacht Council (ABYC) has recommended standards for the placement of scuppers, scupper sizes, and the minimum heights above the load waterline of scuppers both while the boat is static and at maximum heel. Time and time again, we see scuppers that are right at the waterline and often well below the waterline due to poor design. An immediate sign of a pending problem is a boat with float-ball-style scuppers to prevent back-flooding; if you're considering such a boat to buy, don't walk away from it — run. Cockpit decks are supposed to be designed to be a minimum of four inches above the waterline but aren't always. Even when a slight amount of water drains into the bilge, the result is disaster because the boats may be designed on the edge with little safety margin.
 

KJM

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Jul 31, 2016
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Wow, you would think that builders wouldn't be allowed to build boats with scuppers below the water line! Thats crazy! Good information to keep in mind though, thanks!
 

emoney

Commander
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
2,551
Which model Trophy? I had a 1996 WA and never had that issue. I think we need to know more to better advise you. Plugging them is not ideal. Is the water coming in while you’re on plane? Have you looked at trim tabs?
 

dingbat

Supreme Mariner
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Nov 20, 2001
Messages
15,417
Wow, you would think that builders wouldn't be allowed to build boats with scuppers below the water line! Thats crazy! Good information to keep in mind though, thanks!
The height of the scupper is not the problem. It’s the height of the floor above the water line.

The scuppers are just the means of the water seeking equilibrium with the surface of the water.
 

Kingmt01

Cadet
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
26
I don't know enough for this to be taken as advice but might give you something to think about.

My kayak is a sit on top & has scupper holes. There are four up front & two in the back. I don't really care if my gear in the back gets wet but even tho I don't plug those it never seems to come in back there. I don't notice much in the boat but my butt gets soaked without the plugs. I bought some kayak scupper plugs from Wal-Mart but they didn't get mine. So looking around I found some little nurf like golf balls that squeeze really tight into the holes & are easily removed by pushing on them from the bottom. I've considered putting a string in them so the could be pulled from the top of ever needed but I've tried to sink this thing before & couldn't. I'm a fat guy & probably close to maxing this kayak out so other might not have the same problems I do.
 

scoutabout

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
1,568
Same issue with the Scout. Can get a couple of inches of water sloshing around if the boat is loaded and we are doing a lot of stopping, backing, loading/unloading tube riders etc. The ball valves are only so so effective it seems.Have to ensure the balls are free of grit and crud to seal well.
It all drains away once the boat is underway with any incline to the deck and of course at rest with no one aboard it all drains. I agree tho, poor design. Specially with the trailing edge of the ski locker only about a foot forward of the transom. Would not take much of a chain reaction for backwash to seep into the bilge, lower the floating level, let more water in, drips into the bilge, lowers the floating height again, etc etc. Battery is only going to last so long if unattended. In other words, my freeboard isn't the height of the side....it's that 12 inches from the scupper to bilge hatch edge... But, I'm an inland boater and don't sleep aboard so not too concerned. Still, Scout should be designing scuppers to be more than 1" above the unloaded waterline IMHO. Maybe they are on the bigger models.

Also agree wet feet are not an issue in the middle of the hot summer but sucks in late fall or early spring. I just plug the scuppers during those times. Boat actually came with plugs for them.

What I do love them for is washing out the boat at the end of a day with the family. Coupla buckets of water and bye bye sand, cookie crumbs and the odd soggy doggie treat! No wonder the damn things don't seal right...🤔
 
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sam am I

Commander
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Jun 26, 2013
Messages
2,169
@dahlbergdriver


As mentioned, for safety you really should try to keep them functional.........That said, replace the rubber flapper valve/s if they're curling/old/cracked. Also keep/clean any s**t from collecting around the sealing seats of rubber flapper valves.........One little bit of junk prevents the values from seating properly and can allow a slow trickling back flow to leak by the valve when the scuppers are sitting below the surface too far, this = wet feet. Been there done that!!

Few solutions out there to keep them functional as mentioned above, the ping pong balls are certainly one solution, although they can be noisy as they click clack, click clack a lot in the waves, they also can also get junked up internally and leak even worse, by design, they are harder to get cleaned out when this happens......

I sent you a IM to a link for a relatively new'ish product that is specially designed to deal with what you have and it keeps the original design intact and functional, this after market add-on is simple and only takes a few minutes to install as it just substantially improves on whats already there.
 
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