Another newbie looking for a boat!

[Wrekked]

Hey all,

I have been reading all over this site and others for a few months now. It's getting time to pull the trigger on something. I'm not new to boating, but will be to ownership.

First off, I'm in Ontario and will be mainly on lake muskoka. I had a Glastron GT170 with a 115 4 stroke for a week last summer. I found it was more than suitable in most conditions, but it did not handle rough water well as it did not have enough power to plane and skip the waves as the bigger wakeboard boats did.

First: Will an 18' boat with a bigger engine handle this weather better?

Secondly, Brand. I have read about all the tiers etc etc. I do like nice things and appreciate quality, but with that being said I only want to spend 15-20k Canadian, and I would rather give up luxuries for reliability. If each respective boat was maintained the same, is it better to buy say a 2003 crownline or a 2008 Glastron? I also need a bit of power as we do some watersports typically with 3 adults and 2 kids either in the boat or being pulled around.

Third: I'm pretty set on 2 stroke outboards as I like to do my own work and they are so easy to work on. Am i shooting myself in the foot here by limiting my selection?

Fourth: I found a 2015 Tempest 192 with a 150HP Etec within my budget. This seems super cheap, but it looked in great condition. I cannot find any information on these boats other than they are made in Ontario. Any thoughts?

I would preferably stay under 3500lb as I only have a class 2 hitch on my X5, but if talked into it I'll change it out.

Thanks,
Jeremy

 

[roffey]

First off Jeremy I think you will find lots of good advice here. I'm not sure how choppy the Muskoka's gets but can tell you the heaver the boat and the deeper the V, the better it will handle the chop. My boating is eastern Ontario. I have a I/O on my boat but if I had a do over I would get a OB for all the reasons you mention above. My boat is 20 feet with a 190hp. As you said it will skip over the waves. Not always a good thing as it is hard on the boat and even harder on the passengers. In my case when its choppy out I stay on the dock. Most boats will do water sports as you don't go full throttle, in most cases not even half. To pull a skier or tube your hardly on plane. I think for your budget you should be ok and have lots of choices to pick from.

I will stand down and let those more knowledgeable offer up suggestions on what boat is best. I can say my Stingray is great for me on my lake but does not handle big water or heavy swells very well, in fact white knuckle boating at best.

 

[racerone]

Well to do folks in MUSKOKA like the LIMESTONE boats.-----Mid engine and no wood in them.-----I do believe there are smaller versions of this model.-----MADIEROS comes to mind.-------The mid engine puts weight forward and smooths the ride.-----One option to look at.

 

[Wrekked]

Thanks for the reply Roffey. That weather was far from normal on those lakes. There was a massive cold front moving in and I was out in the open where a few bays merge. I was also headed parallel to the waves. I basically had to power up the waves and pull off going down or else I nose dived into the wave and would take on small amounts of water. One thing I did notice on a daily basis though, was when passing other boats, I would have to veer away and then head back into the opposing wake at at least a 45 degree angle or the boat would roll much more than my passengers were comfortable with.

I'm eyeballing a 2005 Doral 190 sunquest with 346 on a 4.3 volvo GXI SX (225hp) and very well maintained. No trailer though, but coming in at $16,500 leaves room to get one.

It's very hard to find an outboard though as it seems they left the market and are now making another comeback, and thus are still new and expensive. I don't boat enough to justify a $30-40k purchase.

 

[roffey]

If it helps with the budget, my rational for purchasing a new boat was it would be my forever boat. I treat this boat like my baby, lol. Its gets the best of everything and likely will out last me and be passed on to my grand kids. I have a 6 year old grand daughter who lives to go boating with Grand dad..

 

[ahicks]

First, I can tell you that the computer software that will allow you to retrieve error messages and test the electronics and sensors on an e-tec are proprietary. Dealers know that and will charge you 100 or so to hook up and supply you with the output. That puts doing your own work on one pretty sketchy. You'll need to be pretty creative. Same goes for other fuel injected engines. That's why I prefer carbed (analog) engines. WAY easier to work on! Do as you like, just wanted to throw that out there.....

The trick when buying a boat, from my viewpoint, as somebody that couldn't afford anything I'd want new (I'm retired), is to find a boat that been owned and maintained as a "forever" boat. Something that's been trailered and stored in a garage when not in use for instance. Those can be 20 years old and still nearly new.... Hell yes it will be an expensive boat as compared to other 20 year old boats, but there's a huge difference in value there!

Boat hull style and type of power are both huge compromises. As much as I love going fast enough to get my hair blown straight back, I also love cruising around watching the world go by on a pontoon at idle speed. For that matter, I enjoyed sailing too! You'll need to define your mission and keep refining it until the right boat comes into focus.

You might do well to consider this first boat a lesson as regarding that forever boat, with plans to own it just a couple of years to see what direction you really want to move in as regarding that forever boat.....

 

[roffey]

I agree with ahicks , used boats are great for figuring out what your forever boat is. The first boat I got was a 26 foot Welcraft only to find out my wife does not like boats and gets very claustrophobic. My next boat was a 18 footer and was much easer to day boat, by my self, lol.

 

[Scott Danforth]

to handle rough water, you need weight and more dead-rise

to go faster on flat water, you want light and less dead rise

you need to focus on the boat you want to get. as others indicated, define what you want in a boat and go from there. Then most likely you need to upgrade the hitch and draw-bar on your BMW.

you are forgetting the 1200# trailer. a 3000# boat with fuel, gear and a trailer is about 5200# being towed. well under the 6600# limit of the X5 when properly equipped.

trying to keep under the #3500 limit of your class II hitch means that the 900# trailer (single axle trailer rated at 2500#), 300# of fuel and 200# of gear leave you looking at boats under 2000# dry weight.

another thing to remember, boats have a finite design life, maintenance will determine their service life. being said, a 17 year old boat may have some issues that you need to attend to. with used boats, brands mean nothing.......buy the best maintained boat you can find. you want the boat that was wiped down after every use and garage kept

 

[Old Ironmaker]

All good suggestions. We as well are in Ontario. We have big lakes in Ontario=big winds=big waves. I as well as others think you are looking at an 18 or 19' glass boat with a nice deep V hull and a maximum horse power outboard (OB) for the hull. 15 to 20K will get you a nice boat in that class in Ontario. Especially this time of the year. There are plenty of Marina's in the Muskokas and Kawarthas to choose from. We primarily boat on Lake Erie, there are weather conditions at times a 45 footer isn't enough to handle the water. I have a 19' deep V StarCraft, if I had to buy again I would go with a 19' glasser. I've fished Lake Vernon a few times at my cousins cottage. A bad day on Vernon is a fair day on Erie. The closest I have come to Erie is Nipissing, big lake shallow water.

Good luck shopping fellow Canuck.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Scott is absolutely correct: condition is key when looking at older boats.

While I often dream of the ease of maintenance of an OB (especially winterizing), it's hard to beat an I/O for a high-horsepower engine that an average person actually can work on.

The most incongruous things on your wish list, I think, are (a) wanting something that will allow you to ride out heavy chop and (b) won't require more than your current class II hitch. I just don't think there's likely to be any resolution to that, so I would take it as a given that you need at least a class IV receiver and drawbar, and likely some sort of braking system on the trailer. If you're not fond of surge brakes (personally, I'm not a fan of 'em), your choices would be electric or hydraulic over electric. Either of those would require some sort of brake controller in your tow vehicle. Just something else to consider...

 

[Wrekked]

I'm not against changing out the hitch, although I believe BMW stops at a class 3 (#5000). I'm also not saying I need the best boat for chop, just one that will handle it better than the 17' glastron. I actually would prefer to stay at 17' but then I'm stuck with smaller power. I was more curious as to if there's a big difference between 17 to 18 and to 19' boats. I would base the length of the boat I look at as my chop value. I have found some really nice looking Doral and sea rays. It's interesting that the dorals seem to be about 200lb lighter and the cheaper the initial boat cost the heavier they seem to get. I know in the glastron I could for sure feel the weight difference of just having me and having a passenger.

I can also do an OBD port brake controller, so I'm covered there. It's all wired up, just when they put the hitch on I had told them I would need to tow a boat probably around 3500# and I guess they went and just threw on a class 2. I just didn't want to have the argument with them that I can see will be unavoidable. Only difference is the receiver anyways. I have the 2" square receiver. To get class 3 I need the adaptor that uses a ball.

So for used boats, you wouldn't say one hull will have held up better than the other over the years, and or hours of use?. I see lots of motors with only 200-250hrs on them. And I see the odd gem that you can tell was kept in a boathouse all year and have service records.

 

[roffey]

There is q big difference between a 17 and a 20 foot boat, everything is bigger on the longer boat. Size matters, lol. When you look at the boat the differences will be obvious, longer, wider, deeper..... When looking at a used boat condition is everything.

 

[Old Ironmaker]

As roffey mentioned there is a big difference between a 17'er and a 19'er. Not just in length the beam and depth make a 19' boat much larger than a 17'er. A fishing buddy had a 17' Lund and with the 2 of us, a cooler, a few rods and a few tackle boxes it was very, very cramped. I took him out a few times in my 19'6" StarCraft and he commented it was a night and day difference. The gunnels came up to his waist on my StarCraft, his 17' Lund hit him just above the knees, that can be huge when reeling in a big fish. He went out the next winter and bought himself a 19' Lund. Size matters big time.

edit: he actually got more $$ for his 10 year old used 17' Lund in great condition than he paid for it 5 years earlier.

 

[Wrekked]

Thanks guys. That helps a lot. I'm on the hunt for a good 18.5+ foot. Since I don't know much about boat conditions, I'm really looking at boats that look new both on the upholstery, the bottom and the outdrive. If a boat has green on the bottom hull is that a sign of neglect, or just a sign its been in the water all year and is normal? I also see some outdrives with whitish patches on them. I'm assuming that's a sign of oxidization?

I decided to up my budget to 25k to see if I can find something a bit better. I'm half on the edge of buying new.

 

[Old Ironmaker]

Read the sticky at the top of this forum main page. It will tell you what to look for in a used boat.

Green discolouration on a boat does not necessarily mean that it has been neglected but points in that direction. My boat had a slip in a skungy creek and it took elbow grease to clean it.

25K isn't going to get you much of a new boat here in Ontario. I was in my Marine dealers place just yesterday. For a 18'6" Crestliner with a 115 O/B 4 stroke hey are asking $65,000.00.

 

[roffey]

for 25k for 18.5 you should be in good shape. White spots on the motor might be a sign the zinc anodes need to be replaced. You are right on the green on the bottom, its a sign the boat has been in the water all summer but it also means its been in the water all summer, lol, and that is not always a good thing. Look up osmosis (https://www.boatsurveyor.net/boat-su...sis-explained/). The gunk on the bottom will slow it down and cost fuel. If you budget is 25k I would take a friend who knows boats or even better get it surveyed, it will be worth it.

 

[roffey]

25K isn't going to get you much of a new boat here in Ontario. I was in my Marine dealers place just yesterday. For a 18'6" Crestliner with a 115 O/B 4 stroke hey are asking $65,000.00.

I payed $38k taxes in for my 20 foot stingray brand new off the show room floor. I did get a deal on it but it was not a steal. I do know Stingray is not top of the line but its not bottom ether, lol.

Time will tell who's right.. its always fun boat shopping but doing it in the spring will bring higher asking price as the owner has stored the boat all winter and might as well use it if they don't get the ask.

 

[Old Ironmaker]

Time will tell who's right.. its always fun boat shopping but doing it in the spring will bring higher asking price as the owner has stored the boat all winter and might as well use it if they don't get the ask.

I just love boat shopping Roffey, especially with someone elses money.

I'm not familiar with the Stingray line. 65K is way beyond my budget for a 19 footer, I paid less for a new 3 bedroom home when I was in my 20's, yep a long time ago however the percentage of my gross wages vs. the price of a home was much higher than today. If a 20 something year old today makes 100K a year try finding them a new house for 300K, they don't exist around here. If i have learned anything about business after all these years is that you can drop asking price by 25% for any consumer good but try and raise it 10 bucks and see what happens. A marine dealer at the end of February would most likely take anything above cost just to keep the lights on. You could shoot a gun off in there yesterday and you wouldn't hit a soul. I asked the owner who was the only person working where everyone was? Laid off for the winter.

 

[roffey]

Old Ironmaker , I agree with new boat shopping and price but I believe he is looking for used. I think is a bad idea to buy a used boat this time of year. If it were not winterized properly or if they blew up the motor you won't know until spring.

 

[Old Ironmaker]

ICC T20 world cup 2020 will be played in Australia in 2020 for the first time. Australia will have the advantage to show something different than the previous of short format because they failed to hold the trophy of 20

Whad da? I think you got the wrong iboats forum. The world cup of whatever you are talking about forum is on the other page.