General advise on a couple used boats and brands

[Indy boater14]

Looking for some opinions, advice, and knowledge (known engine & brand issues etc.) I am looking at a few used cuddy cabin style boats from around 1996 - 2002. A few Chaparrals, Rinkers, Cobalts (that aren't insanely priced), Four Winns, etc.

Looking to have it for my young family and I to use on weekends and camping trips.

Most of the time I am planning on having two adults and two children. Currently they are toddlers but plan to have them on the water and growing up out there! Occasionally having more family and friends, I would say around 6-8 people max. ​

Storage wise will typically be covered in a garage during the season and either in the garage or pole barn during the winter. Planning to have said father in law show me how to properly winterize. ​

Plan on being on small-medium to medium sized lakes most of the time and plan to be cruising, tubing, a little skiing, but mostly tying up and cracking a few cold ones.​

What brands & motors are reliable and which to stay away from in that era? What common things to look out for and how many hours would be reasonable? I appreciate any knowledge and advice you may have.

Thanks!

 

[Scott Danforth]

Welcome aboard

since you are looking at older boats, it all comes down to condition

brand doesnt matter, only condition

read this link in the stickies https://forums.iboats.com/forum/gen...eeding-help-buying-a-boat-a-buyer-s-checklist

a few things
OMC is out of business, avoid all boats with OMC
Ford powered anything will be difficult to get service parts for
go back to condition

 

[JASinIL2006]

Welcome to iboats!

With boats of that era (we're talking 17-21 years old), the condition of the boat will trump most other considerations.

If you are looking at I/O boats, you're pretty safe with boats powered by a Mercruiser Alpha drive (either Alpha One or Alpha One Gen 2) with a GM engine in front of it. Similarly, Volvo Penta drives are fairly safe, but some people report more difficulty finding nearby shops that work on them.

There are few obsolete and/or known to be troublesome engines, but if you post updates in this thread as you come across candidates, folks can warn you away from them.

One really helpful guide is found in a sticky (i.e., permanent topic) at the top of this forum: https://forums.iboats.com/forum/gen...eeding-help-buying-a-boat-a-buyer-s-checklist. It has all sorts of info on stuff to look for.

If you are new to boats, you might also post a bit more on how you plan to use the boat (how many people, where/how it will be stored between uses, what activities are most likely, what kind of body of water will you boat on, etc.) and people can help you look for/avoid features to narrow your search.

Finally, one of the most helpful things is to take along someone who is knowledgeable (or at least more knowledgeable than you!) when you go to look at boats. I am no expert by far, but I've helped a couple friends in their searches and the extra eyes can really help spot problems.

Good luck in your search!

 

[jkust]

There's some things that will at a minimum separate some of those boats for decision purposes. For example, up until about 2001, Chaparrals are almost incomparable to the 2001 and up models (give or take a year depending on which mode) They moved from wood floors and wood components to no wood/far less wood and water impermeable materials where there used to be wood or non flow through materials such as the seat cushions.
Basically, a 90's Chaparral is a completely different animal to their contemporary models with a completely different state of the art. That will be the same for most of those brands give or take a couple of years when they each made the switch. Easier at a minimum to not borrow trouble when most of the wood is not there.

In addition, engine model year 2002 usherd in a new MPI version of small block v8's and v6's which then lasted for over a decade. The old MPI was retired and part are literally everywhere. I'm generally fond of Mercruiser because that is the brand my local marina prefers to service and my boat doesn't leave the lake unless absolutely necessary....they will service at my dock at my house but not Volvo.

More opinion, I disdain that generation of cobalt as they were getting their decor act together still, Rinker was very close to bottom of the barrel and Four Winns was still getting their decor act together as well.

 

[Indy boater14]

Thank you both. The check list is definitely a good resource. I have been around boats for a while, just new to this specific style and era. Fortunately I have a father in-law who is very seasoned and knowledgeable who I will most likely take when looking at something seriously. For now I am making sure to narrow down my search for something good for our needs. Good call on posting some more specifics. One question I do have is from what I have researched on forums sound like the alpha drive motors seem to be lacking in power and capability as apposed to the Bravo drives. A few I am looking at currently are a MerCruiser 5.0 EFI (do not know much about), An Alpha One Drive, and a 7.4 454 Bravo 1

Most of the time I am planning on having two adults and two children. Currently they are toddlers but plan to have them on the water and growing up out there! Occasionally having more family and friends, I would say around 6-8 people max.

Storage wise will typically be covered in a garage during the season and either in the garage or pole barn during the winter. Planning to have said father in law show me how to properly winterize.

Plan on being on small-medium to medium sized lakes most of the time and plan to be cruising, tubing, a little skiing, but mostly tying up and cracking a few cold ones.

 

[southkogs]

Not too much to add, with the exception of suggesting you get the whole clan into the cockpit on a cuddy. 4 people on a 22' cuddy would be cozy but fine, 6 to 8 and a few of them will need to be married or at least dating in order to be comfortable. Cuddy cabins chew up a lot of space that's used for entertaining on a deck boat or bow rider.

Based on what you were suggesting the usage would be, you may want more cockpit space than that.

:welcome:

 

[jkust]

Thank you both. The check list is definitely a good resource. I have been around boats for a while, just new to this specific style and era. Fortunately I have a father in-law who is very seasoned and knowledgeable who I will most likely take when looking at something seriously. For now I am making sure to narrow down my search for something good for our needs. Good call on posting some more specifics. One question I do have is from what I have researched on forums sound like the alpha drive motors seem to be lacking in power and capability as apposed to the Bravo drives. A few I am looking at currently are a MerCruiser 5.0 EFI (do not know much about), An Alpha One Drive, and a 7.4 454 Bravo 1

Most of the time I am planning on having two adults and two children. Currently they are toddlers but plan to have them on the water and growing up out there! Occasionally having more family and friends, I would say around 6-8 people max.

Storage wise will typically be covered in a garage during the season and either in the garage or pole barn during the winter. Planning to have said father in law show me how to properly winterize.

Plan on being on small-medium to medium sized lakes most of the time and plan to be cruising, tubing, a little skiing, but mostly tying up and cracking a few cold ones.

There's a lot on here about those drives but I've had an Alpha 1 gen 2 and also currently have a Bravo 1.
Just by price alone, you realize that the alpha is going to be the lesser option which will handle only up to 300hp and of course the rudimentary design means it clunks into gear. The bravo 1 of course then will handle substantially more hp and is a smooth shift with no fuss into gear. (truthfully I had the Alpha 1 when my kids were younger and the clunk into gear let everybody know it's time to stay seated) The Bravo is just a far better mousetrap than the Alpha.

That said, If I had my druthers, I would not buy an alpha for certain but would seek out a Bravo 3 with dual props for low speed handling. While my Bravo 1 will outrun the same equipped boat with a Bravo 3, the allure of faster top speed is quickly overtaken when you want better handling around a dock that the B3 provides. Rarely do I go wot but I go low speed every time.

 

[harringtondav]

The one thing that scares me about used boats is the condition of the structure. Transom and stringer rot. A well maintained, sanely used stern drive package will last a long time w/o terrible maintenance costs. But a rotten structure is a wallet busting tragedy.

Try to determine the number of owners, if the boat was kept well covered out of the weather, and the hours on the meter. And absolutely take a long test drive. I haven't read the link mentioned twice above, but I bet it will point you to key tell-tale indicators of structural condition.

 

[Indy boater14]

There's a lot on here about those drives but I've had an Alpha 1 gen 2 and also currently have a Bravo 1.
Just by price alone, you realize that the alpha is going to be the lesser option which will handle only up to 300hp and of course the rudimentary design means it clunks into gear. The bravo 1 of course then will handle substantially more hp and is a smooth shift with no fuss into gear. (truthfully I had the Alpha 1 when my kids were younger and the clunk into gear let everybody know it's time to stay seated) The Bravo is just a far better mousetrap than the Alpha.

That said, If I had my druthers, I would not buy an alpha for certain but would seek out a Bravo 3 with dual props for low speed handling. While my Bravo 1 will outrun the same equipped boat with a Bravo 3, the allure of faster top speed is quickly overtaken when you want better handling around a dock that the B3 provides. Rarely do I go wot but I go low speed every time.

Let me ask you this since you know about both the Bravo 1 & 3 because I am looking at one now. What is the price difference in terms of maintenance? I have heard that the B3 can be rather costly as opposed to the B1, but have only heard that in rumor and have not experienced the difference between the two myself.

Thanks for the info!

 

[H20Rat]

The Bravo is just a far better mousetrap than the Alpha.

It is also a much, much more expensive mousetrap! If you don't have an engine who's horsepower requires the bravo, an alpha is often a better choice. ESPECIALLY if you boat in an area that has rocks/stumps/sandbars. I'll take the clunk all day long, like you said it is a great indicator to stay seated! (also great if you have someone in the water on a tube, they know to pay attention)

 

[Scott06]

Alpha gets a bum rap due to the dog clutch, but it is perfect for what it is intended for lower hp applications. The two I have owned over 25 years have been little to no maintenance if you change the lube

Above 22-24 ft your going to want more power and on a heavier boat you will need a bravo

 

[cptbill]

rely on your surveyor, remember all the systems on the boats are 17+ years old, plumbing, electrical and so on don't just concern yourself with the brand

 

[wahlejim]

I will drop my .02 in here for what it's worth. Buy cheap first. Find something without all of the frills of a $10-$15k cuddy but is sea worthy. Should be able to find something in the 5-7 range. Beat the heck out of it. Use it in different bodies of water, short trips, long trips, you name it! Use the heck out of it. Plan on it being a 2-3 year boat. You will find out more about your family's likes, dislikes, wants vs needs, etc. In 2-3 years, sell it then buy the boat that fits you best. Bottom line, boats are built to last about 30 years. My 1980 Sea Ray was rebuilt in 2009. Before that, my dad's sea sprite lasted from 74-2003. Any boat that you are looking at right now will need a rebuild shortly. Spend less now, beat the heck out of it, and save for later. I have yet to find someone nail exactly what they were looking for on their 1st try. Go boating and make a wishlist from there.

While I have never heard of someone completely happy with their first purchase, I have seen it go the other way plenty of times with relatives and friends. 2 quick stories. Cousin loves fishing. His sons loved fishing, or so he thought. Went out and got a fancy bass boat. Lasted 2 years until sons went on friends boat and tried water sports. Sons no longer as interested in fishing. He traded in the bass boat for a huge loss and now owns a decent fish and ski. It was about time with his sons, not what he wanted to do. Second story, business acquaintance of mine bought a 35 foot cruiser. Thought it was more boat than he could handle and would suit his needs. He joined the yacht club and ventures out on Lake Michigan. After 1 trip to Door County, wished he had a bigger boat. 35 feet seems huge until you are stuck on it for a week in inclement weather. Now he has a 45 footer.

My point is to try out a cheaper version of what you think you want now before blowing the budget on a mistake. You may find that a cuddy is not what you are looking for at all and a bow rider is what you are really after, or maybe even a beefy tritoon. When the kids are grown, a cuddy gets pretty small pretty quick as no one will want to cruise in the cabin and you will have full grown people in the cockpit.

 

[jkust]

Let me ask you this since you know about both the Bravo 1 & 3 because I am looking at one now. What is the price difference in terms of maintenance? I have heard that the B3 can be rather costly as opposed to the B1, but have only heard that in rumor and have not experienced the difference between the two myself.

Thanks for the info!

No question the Bravo is going to cost a bit more in particular the B3 prop sets are expensive. My Alpha 1 started going through drive oil at about 100 hours of pretty light use and forget what I paid to have that corrected but not cheap (nothing is right). So far the Bravo 1 has been 100% trouble free and I'm at I think 350 hours on it so far. The impeller which is at times called a water pump on a bravo drive is actually on the engine not in the outdrive and so I've had that replaced but really that is preventative maintenance. As someone mentioned up above, yes the Bravo drives are a more expensive mouse trap for sure.

What you tended to see is that some upper branded boats may have come with a Bravo drive even if they were under 300hp because the Alpha drive is considered an entry level drive and buyers expected more out of their expensive new boats. Not a hard and fast rule, but generally speaking. What I can say is that assuming we don't succumb to the Pontoon trend, my next boat will have a Bravo 3 as I struggle mightily with my boat with a single prop in close quarters and so I avoid those places when I really don't want to have to. Technically speaking, I could replace the Bravo 1 lower unit with a B 3 lower unit If I was inclined (because the Bravo upper unit is present already).

 

[tpenfield]

:welcome: to iBoats Indy boater14

I have been in your shoes . . . young family looking to get them into boating. I started with a 22 ft sailboat, then after a few years the family found that kind of b-o-r-i-n-g . . .

Sine you are looking at 16-20 year old boats, condition, as stated, is going to be a big (big) factor. However, I would not ignore brand reputation, because a mediocre boat does not get better with age.

Make sure the cuddy cabin has restroom facilities (porta-pottie or even a pump-out head) . . . very important feature for family boating.

As far as engines and reliability . . . well there may not be much in terms of reliability, at least by comparative standards, such as automobiles. There is just something about engines when they are not used for 6 months things that were working all of a sudden stop working. Your FIL can probably tell a few stories in that regard. Anyway fear not, there are some decent engines and propulsion packages.

Since you will be getting an older cuddy cabin, you will most likely be looking at I/O (aka sterndrive) engines. Mercruiser is the way to go IMO. OMC is OOB as mentioned, but you will find some boats up to the year 1999-2000 that have OMC engines. Four Winns is one example of a brand that used OMC. Just don't do it, not even if the seller is giving the boat away.

Volvo Penta and Mercruiser are the primary survivors of the I/O engine world. Mercruiser has survived (thrived) much better as far as volume and servicing and parts availability and price. Alpha is the general purpose outdrive from Mercruiser. They are good and well-proven outdrives, good up to 300 hp of engine. Above 300 hp is where Bravo comes in. I have only used the Bravo drives, as the boats that I have bought over the years had 7.4L (454) engines. The Bravo outdrive was introduced in 1988. They are pretty much bullet proof IMO, as is the 454/7.4L engine.

As a side note. The engines are all going to be made by GM (General Motors). Mercruiser and V-P buy them from GM and then add there brand of fuel, electrical, exhaust and cooling systems.

You will find both carbureted and EFI/MPI versions of these engines (4.3, 5.0, 5.7, 7.4, 8.1., 8.2) EFI or MPI work great until they don't then there is hell to pay to figure out what is wrong. Often the dealers cannot quite figure things out. It all depends on how good they are.

If you plan on doing your own maintenance, then you can save some $,$$$ and perhaps aggravation vs. relying on local boat mechanics.

As far as the boat itself, keep in mind that the 'skeleton' of many boats is made of wood. The skin of the hull may be fiberglass, but the structure behind it is wood in many cases, particularly when you are buying boats from the 1990's - early 2000's era. Many boat companies still use wood, although most have switched to rot-resistant wood.

Wood can deteriorate (rot) and when that happens the structure of the boat is compromised. so, you will need to learn to look 'behind the shine' (as I call it) and inspect the gust of the boat as well as what is in plain sight.

So, read up on the mentioned check lists and take along the FIL and any other experienced boaters when you go look at prospective boats. Nothing will be perfect, so you will have to use your best judgement on selecting manageable imperfections.

Of the boat brands that you listed, I would heavily favor Cobalt over the others, maybe Chaparral as a second choice.