Looking at a project Mark Twin runabout

chief1983

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Dec 1, 2017
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5
Hi all, new to the forum, was hoping to pick some brains about a boat for sale near me.

Someone basically down the street from me is selling what looks to me to be a '60s Mark Twain V-Sonic 16' with a 120HP Mercruiser sterndrive (think it's '60s because of the curved glass, they aren't sure and are still looking for the title). This would be my first boat, only had some experience with friends' and my brother's pontoon in the past. It will definitely need some floor work, I am assuming that without being able to pull up the soft floor to check the stringers that those and possibly the transom are lost and in need of replacement, so if I'm wrong about anything I get to be excited. I didn't know what stringers were until last night so I'm trying to sound smarter than I am but I think I'm a pretty quick learner. The boat seems like it deserves a restoration, the curved glass is still completely intact, virtually all the trim is in place, the hull exterior looks free of any collision damage so far, but going to take a closer look this weekend. I did have some questions, and since this forum keeps popping up in my google searches it seemed like the right place to ask.

​First, they claimed the engine turns over, and the oil is clean, but I'd like to at least compression test it, or possibly fire it up (probably not though unless I can find some muffs, apparently even a few seconds is a bad idea for a dry impeller). It's been a couple years sitting though. I am thinking at a minimum, pull the plugs and shoot some light oil in to help with initial lubrication before turning it over? But more concerning is, they don't have a battery for it, and having admired a lot of classic vehicles, I've seen a lot of them that used 6v systems. Are there any Mark Twain runabouts that would fall into that category? I see that 6v marine batteries exist, but my searching hasn't shown that at least Mark Twain ever used 6v systems. I just wanted to make sure I don't try to jump it and fry half the boat. The sellers probably aren't sure as they aren't the actual owners, but are selling it for an elder gentleman who is losing his faculties. It sounds like he may not be in any shape to even answer any questions about the boat's history unfortunately.

​Is there anything else I should be looking for that sounds like I might still be surprised? Neither the steering nor the throttle appear to be frozen, which seem like good signs to me.

​What kind of documentation is available for these boats? I've had a little trouble finding service manuals, etc, so far for the boat in general. It seems I need a Mercruiser Service Manual #1 and perhaps the Seloc 3200. Factory boat wiring diagrams could be helpful though in case a PO put any surprises in place. Trouble might partly be that a lot of downloading sites are blocked here at work, I will take another look when I get home probably.

​Is there a such thing as an affordable quality cover for a small boat like this? I'd like to have it securely protected when not in use but afraid I may be stuck with a large Harbor Freight tarp for the time being.

If they do find the titles for the boat and trailer, it seems like for a small investment, I would at least be able to cut my losses at some point and part it out and cover what I put into it. That said, is there any significant parts market for Mark Twain runabout parts? I imagine the glass is expensive to have custom made but not sure how far I'd have to go, or how long I'd have to wait to find another person who needs it.

​Thanks for any help that can be provided.
 

sa43

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Joined
Sep 7, 2016
Messages
21
You can get a socket and pull handle and turn the motor over to see if its locked up before you try to crank it.Mine is a12v system are you sure this is? Marvel mystery oil would work good. I am in the process of redoing the stringers in a 78 mark twain and whatever they glued them down with is very hard to get up. It also grinds when putting in gear so the cable needs replacing they will stretch over time I only paid 1500 dollars for it so im not worried about putting a lot of money in it. I could send you pics of the floor if you want. Look at the restoration forum on here and read what these guy have told me what to do. Also if you do it yourself a corded sawzall works better than battery operated one. I have a service manual I could look up something for you Hope this helps
 

southkogs

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Jul 7, 2010
Messages
14,792
Welcome aboard:

Knee jerk reaction - don't pay a cent for the boat. A Mercruiser is a pretty common powerplant and while you can make some beans back from parting it out, it can be nearly as much hassle as it will be return. The boat is probably a full restoration. You might get a kick out of doing the restoration, but if it's just that you like the old Mark Twain there is just as good a chance you can find one in decent working order for not a lot of money and be ahead of the plan (they're a reasonably common boat). And there's no real value in restoring a boat except personal satisfaction ... it's not like vintage cars, except in a few rare cases.

I think it's Scott who normally chimes in with "boats rot from the inside out," and he's right. If you can see the problems, it usually means there are a few more you can't see supporting the one you can. A new guy with no experience around boats, not even really understanding how they're built - sight unseen this one is a little more biting off than you can chew without getting pretty frustrated.

... BUT ...

I do like old glass boats, and I like the Mark Twains. They were some sharp looking boats. If you're willing to take the risks financially and can set a reasonable "bail out" point - and you just plain wanna' do it - then, you can restore many old boats to something fun and usable. It will be more expensive than the boat is going to be worth, and it's going to take you more time and dust than you expect. Only to have a vintage boat that will want as much attention in the garage as on the lake ;) But, it can be pretty satisfying.
 

sa43

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Joined
Sep 7, 2016
Messages
21
Welcome aboard:

Knee jerk reaction - don't pay a cent for the boat. A Mercruiser is a pretty common powerplant and while you can make some beans back from parting it out, it can be nearly as much hassle as it will be return. The boat is probably a full restoration. You might get a kick out of doing the restoration, but if it's just that you like the old Mark Twain there is just as good a chance you can find one in decent working order for not a lot of money and be ahead of the plan (they're a reasonably common boat). And there's no real value in restoring a boat except personal satisfaction ... it's not like vintage cars, except in a few rare cases.

I think it's Scott who normally chimes in with "boats rot from the inside out," and he's right. If you can see the problems, it usually means there are a few more you can't see supporting the one you can. A new guy with no experience around boats, not even really understanding how they're built - sight unseen this one is a little more biting off than you can chew without getting pretty frustrated.

... BUT ...

I do like old glass boats, and I like the Mark Twains. They were some sharp looking boats. If you're willing to take the risks financially and can set a reasonable "bail out" point - and you just plain wanna' do it - then, you can restore many old boats to something fun and usable. It will be more expensive than the boat is going to be worth, and it's going to take you more time and dust than you expect. Only to have a vintage boat that will want as much attention in the garage as on the lake ;) But, it can be pretty satisfying.

But thats taking all the fun out it.I love rebuilding old stuff
 

ahicks

Captain
Joined
Sep 16, 2013
Messages
3,957
The fact it's a MarkTwain is not that big a deal.

It's a 12v system. No chance it's 6v.

The carb almost certainly needs cleaning bad enough where if it does start, it's not going to run good.

The upper bearing in the distributor is a bushing, and because it's a crappy design, there's a very good chance it's so worn there's not much chance it's going to hold a point gap no matter how carefully set. That's going to cost the price of the distributor housing to fix.

There's a rubber boot that protects the u-joints between the engine and the out drive. Safe bet that's completely shot, and they are n fun to replace.

All this before you start fixing any dry rot issues.

Cover in case you decide to try anyway:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/17-19-Ft-6...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
 

mr 88

Commander
Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
2,122
Its a 12 volt system,documentation on a boat of that vintage is a transferable registration. Any questions on the outdrive and motor can be answered in the Mercruiser forum on here with no need to buy any manuals.They sell boat covers of different quality and price on this site. I agree with Southkogs and would add to it. This thing is going to be a money and time pit ,no way around that. Floor,stringers and transom are more than likely all shot. Add more money for vinyl ,wheel bearings,motor and outdrive restoration and your going to be a few thousand in it before you even turn the key.This boat even if completely restored will not be worth more than 1500 on a good day. It is not a desireable collectable and the glass ones that are still don't command big money like a car. If it was my first boat I would want to enjoy it and not be a financial/time slave to it. Save up about 1500-2000 and buy a 18-21 footer with a 350 V8 in it so you can do water sports / have more than 2 people on board and not get slammed to death with passing waves as the 16' will. Sure that boat would need some work but not to the magnitude that the Twain is going to command. It will also resell for about what you paid for it if you want to move on .Just move on from it and don't look back is my opinion.
 

Old Ironmaker

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Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,050
Assume the worse and hope for the best. The question only you can answer is what budget are you willing to invest in a 60's era boat that will most likely be worth less than what you put into it. The return on investment will be the satisfaction you get from doing the resto and turning heads at the dock. What do you plan on spending to re-do this old boat? Replacing that curved glass from those 60's and 70's era boats, and cars can be the price of a good running used 16' boat 30 years newer. I wouldn't pay more than $400.00 CDN for it, including a 1960's trailer. If in good condition you are looking at no more than $1800.00 CDN here for that boat, if and only if, a seller can find the right buyer. Old and a rare classic are not one in the same.
 

chief1983

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Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
5
Appreciate all the responses, I definitely didn't ever expect to make money from it after any level of restoration even if I do everything myself. But they were asking $250 which I forgot to mention, and believe they should be able to find the titles for both the boat and trailer. No titles, engine locked up, definitely walking, but I figured I would go take another look today with daylight and see just what I'd be getting into. Will be able to add pics later as well. That cover is a lot cheaper than I expected, although guessing I'd want the 14-16' one, or would want to go a little big on those for some reason?

 

chief1983

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Dec 1, 2017
Messages
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They were only asking $250, and do believe they'll find titles for both the boat and trailer, or are willing to apply for replacement titles if not. That cover is cheap, guessing I'd want the 16' one unless it's good to go a bit large on those for some reason? Tried uploading pics but it won't let me, guess I can link to google though.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nKiWM8F0OO8ojXZ12

More later if I get some today, going to take another look in the light and see if it turns over. If they can't get titles or it's locked I'm walking for sure, we'll see what happens otherwise.
 

chief1983

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Dec 1, 2017
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5
Ok sorry, not sure what happened, thought it ate my first post but apparently it accepted it somehow? I don't know if anyone else can see the photos in the first one or not so I'll leave the second one with the backup link.
 

southkogs

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Messages
14,792
You needed three posts before you could post photos. The google link works though.

I think the letters on the boat hull you're looking at were from Missouri, so I did a quick look. You may want to take a look at THIS for comparison.
 

sa43

Cadet
Joined
Sep 7, 2016
Messages
21
They were only asking $250, and do believe they'll find titles for both the boat and trailer, or are willing to apply for replacement titles if not. That cover is cheap, guessing I'd want the 16' one unless it's good to go a bit large on those for some reason? Tried uploading pics but it won't let me, guess I can link to google though.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nKiWM8F0OO8ojXZ12

More later if I get some today, going to take another look in the light and see if it turns over. If they can't get titles or it's locked I'm walking for sure, we'll see what happens otherwise.

Keep walking.
 

Texasmark

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
14,557
Welcome aboard:

Knee jerk reaction - don't pay a cent for the boat. A Mercruiser is a pretty common powerplant and while you can make some beans back from parting it out, it can be nearly as much hassle as it will be return. The boat is probably a full restoration. You might get a kick out of doing the restoration, but if it's just that you like the old Mark Twain there is just as good a chance you can find one in decent working order for not a lot of money and be ahead of the plan (they're a reasonably common boat). And there's no real value in restoring a boat except personal satisfaction ... it's not like vintage cars, except in a few rare cases.

I think it's Scott who normally chimes in with "boats rot from the inside out," and he's right. If you can see the problems, it usually means there are a few more you can't see supporting the one you can. A new guy with no experience around boats, not even really understanding how they're built - sight unseen this one is a little more biting off than you can chew without getting pretty frustrated.

... BUT ...

I do like old glass boats, and I like the Mark Twains. They were some sharp looking boats. If you're willing to take the risks financially and can set a reasonable "bail out" point - and you just plain wanna' do it - then, you can restore many old boats to something fun and usable. It will be more expensive than the boat is going to be worth, and it's going to take you more time and dust than you expect. Only to have a vintage boat that will want as much attention in the garage as on the lake ;) But, it can be pretty satisfying.

Mark Twain was popular around here in the '60's to 80's. Especially popular was the Tri-Sonic 18' version with the Tri-hedral hull, worked excellent on our large wind drive lakes. Boats of the day were susceptible to wood rot due to the manufacturing techniques of the day. Wood is in the stringers, transom, and decks. Expect as others have stated, a full restoration with that and the Mercruiser. What about the trailer?
 

chief1983

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Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Messages
5
You needed three posts before you could post photos. The google link works though.

I think the letters on the boat hull you're looking at were from Missouri, so I did a quick look. You may want to take a look at THIS for comparison.

I had already seen that one. Definitely nicer, one of the reasons I've ended up passing on the beat up one. I think they dropped the price too, it was $1000 last week I could swear.
 

mr 88

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Joined
Nov 3, 2010
Messages
2,122
I had already seen that one. Definitely nicer, one of the reasons I've ended up passing on the beat up one. I think they dropped the price too, it was $1000 last week I could swear.

So they would be happy with 500 at this point, maybe even 400.00 takes it.
 

Old Ironmaker

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Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,050
I like the looks of the dash on that boat Your money mate, your decision. It sure looks to be much better than the first one, much better. That doesn't mean it doesn't need restoration and thousands of dollars. The add says $650.00, offer them $250.00 meet at 4. Keep us up to date on your decision.
 
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