Sea worthy bow rider

Jonboat2Bassboat

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Looking for advice on a sea worthy bow rider. Started looking at 18 - 20 foot I/O but most advice here points to a 20 - 23 w/ 115 - 150 OB made for salt water. Seems these boats are made for fresh water, even if they have an outboard, and the boats trim just won't hold up to salt water.

Now looking at the Sea Hunt 211 LE Escape and the larger 23 foot model.

What other boats would be comparable to consider? The Key West was suggested but have not looked at a BR w/ OB yet. Intended use is pleasure boating in Maine inter coastal water ways that are mostly protected from the open ocean by peninsulas. Always check forecast for tides, wind, cross seas and can read the water and changing weather conditions well enough to know when to turn back so a bowrider shouldn't be a problem for when and where I boat.
 

tpenfield

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Probably what is called a 'dual console' rather than a 'bow rider', if you are going to do ocean waters, even the more protected areas.

What is your budget? New . . . Used ?

Consider . . .

Grady-White
Edgewater
Boston Whaler
Key West
Regulator
 

dingbat

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Always check forecast for tides, wind, cross seas and can read the water and changing weather conditions well enough to know when to turn back so a bowrider shouldn't be a problem for when and where I boat.
When dealing with tidal (big) waters, you always plan for the worst and wish for the best. Even a simple (scheduled) tide change can turn calm waters into a treacherous mess in a matter of minutes under the right conditions.

Turning back isn't always an option. ;)
 

QBhoy

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Is there such a thing, by their very nature ?
Perhaps your waters are more sheltered, but living in the west coast of Scotland, there aren't many days in the year that I would put my 18ft bowrider in the sea....apart from that, they just aren't meant for the sea, in my opinion.
 

Jonboat2Bassboat

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QBhoy,

Agreed, which is why I am looking for a 20 to 23 foot bowrider with a 115 to 150 HP outboard to take out into "protected" waters on good days. On the other hand Gordon Brown from Skyack routinely takes people around the Isle of Sky (not to many protected waters around the Isle of Skye) in 16 to 18 foot sea kayaks. I figure a well powered 20 to 23 boat with a deep V hull and lots of freeboard would have a distinct advantage over a kayak.

As for boats, I am looking for advice on what boats would work for my intended use, not those that wouldn't work. Someone here said any boat can be taken out into the ocean but having a boat that is likely, not guaranteed, to meet your needs is key. Bear in mind though that even the Titanic was taken down by the ocean and the Edmond Fitzgerald, while on a freshwater lake, was taken down.

So what boat would you feel comfortable taking out into the unprotected waters around the west coast of Scotland? By the way my wife and I toured Scotland a couple of years ago and had a great time. Unfortunately I didn't learn of Gordon Brown until well after we got back. We plan to visit again in a couple of years and going on a sea kayak tour around the Isle of Skye with Gordon Brown will be one of my goals.

Thanks for your advice.
 

QBhoy

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Hi there...many good points there.
My old man has a 40ft Princess....she is ideal for Scottish west coast water in all but a few conditions beyond reason.
If I had my choice for a day boat around here, it would without doubt be a Rib like a scorpion or osprey.
The west coast is a lovely place and I haven't seen anything like it, even in all my merchant navy days round the world. Nicest place in the world when the sun shines, but god help the man that under estimates he when she shows her true self, often without much notice.
Many sheltered stretches for kayaking and plenty do. Not my cup of tea. Most commercial guys have big ribs or hardtop type fast fishers like an Arvor etc.
I'd love to throw my boat in the Clyde for a wee day trip and being honest on most occasions and with caution it would probably be just fine.
It's just the memories of the odd occasion sailing on the old man's boat, when things get rough....I perhaps take a second thought about it. Progress in my boat (as fast as it is at over 60mph on the lake) would be painfully slow in anything over a fair breeze. The fact is that the average American bow rider of almost any size, just isn't meant for over here. They don't have the hull for it....even the best of them like a campion and similar.
To sum it up....you won't see many American boats of any type in the sea over here. Those who do, learn a tuff lesson and either sell them on for a more suitable boat or just use them as a floating caravan in the marina.
 

QBhoy

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There will of course be exceptions and not meaning to ridicule all American boats...it's just that the Ones that make it over here tend to be the cheaper mass produced models like bayliner, sea ray, regal etc etc.
If I remember right...you guys get boats like Boston whalers and similar over there ? Might this be an alternative to a bow rider for you ?
Have you thought about a RIB ? Very popular over here for their functionality and robust build...usually based on well known UK racing hulls like scorpion, ring and similar designs.
These things will do 40 knots in almost any weather.
Haven't seen much of them over in the states for some reason.
 

Old Ironmaker

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JonBoat, it appears that you are a well informed shopper that knows his limitations and his stuff. We boat the Great Lakes, Ontario and Huron on occasion but 90% on Erie where we have a shack on the waterfront. Erie can kick up from a calm, sunny and water like glass to a raging storm in minutes not hours. I have seen days here where it went from a fine calm sunny afternoon to waterspouts in less than an hour. I cringe when I see 6 people 10 miles out in a 16' aluminum, I want to throttle them because it is us that has to tow them in and we risk or vessel and safety for their stupidity and or ignorance. I have only boated when fishing offshore as far as 60 miles the Atlantic in Florida and the Gulf and it too can kill you in a New York minute, no matter how big a vessel. We were caught in a storm running from Erie Pa. to Long Point Bay in a 35 foot Owens years ago. We sheltered in a bay at the tip of Long Point for 3 hours being tossed about like a cork in a tub. I kissed the ground when we hit land. 2 of the guys have never been on a boat again. What I am so inadequate in saying is how big is enough when Neptune gets PO'ed and decides to ruin a day? 21', 23' 33"? I may be a woose but when we are 10 to 15 miles offshore here and I see the wind shift, the sky darken on either side, or those short whitecaps start I pull riggers and hightail it home when all seems fine. More than once my mates have complained only to thank me once the storm hits. You seem to be well suited to do what you say and educated enough to know your limitations. I myself would want a Key West if I were shopping for a solid glass boat and I would max out on horsepower. You are in the right place to get quality advice from some very knowledgeable folks.

Good luck shopping, it's both exciting but can be frustrating as well.
 

tpenfield

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Thanks Ted,

Read your article on buying and selling boats and will put your advice to work. I see you are from the cape, I grew up in Scituate, and wonder if you have boated in coastal Maine? If not a Maine road map will work for the locations mentioned.

Thanks for your comments about my article. I have not boated in the Maine waters, but I imagine that it would be quite interesting. There are big tides there, if I recall correctly.

I think you are on the right track with a deep V hull from the makers of fishing style boats. If I come across anything interesting, I'll send you a link.
 

tpenfield

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BTW- The Stingray and boats that are designed like it . . . i.e many of the common bowriders . . . are not designed for ocean waters where conditions (wind/waves) can deteriorate.

A common "bowrider" has a low sloping bow in order to provide good shore access from the bow for beaching. A "Dual Console", has the forward seating of a bowrider, but an important difference is that they share the hull design of a center console fishing boat in that the bow has the most freeboard for taking waves.

These 2 pictures should illustrate the point . .

The Stingray has a low sloping bow . . . lower than the freeboard height at the stern . . . and will fairly easily take a wave over the bow, which may eject occupants and swamp the boat. stingray1B.jpg




By contrast the Sea Hunt has the bow raised higher than the freeboard at the stern and will be able to handle waves and rough conditions much, much better, these boats are referred to as "Dual Console" because they share many of the design features of a "Center Console" boat. SeaHunt1B.jpg




As you can see that boat designs are pretty much the opposite, where the bow of the Sea Hunt slopes upward and the bow of the Stingray slopes downward.

You generally find boats like the Stingray on lakes, where the conditions do not get as rough as they do on ocean waters.

So, for your waters, I would look for the Sea Hunt and boats like it.
 
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Bayou Dave

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Tpenfield.... thanks for that info. I learned something today. Didn't really know the difference between bowrider and dual console. I had thought my boat was a bowrider because of the seating at the bow. Now I realize it is a dual console.
 

tpenfield

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Tpenfield.... thanks for that info. I learned something today. Didn't really know the difference between bowrider and dual console. I had thought my boat was a bowrider because of the seating at the bow. Now I realize it is a dual console.

I'm thinking your Larson is a bowrider . . . although not as sloped as the Stingray that the OP is considering.

larsonsei190B.jpg
 

roffey

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I have a Stingray 198 and can tell you from experience it would never do well in big waters. My lake is sheltered and the biggest open water we have is maybe 1 mile. In two foot chop my boat will launch out of the water, fun but not for all. In three foot chop my baby is snuggled up next to my dock. Stingray is definitely not a big water boat or at least mine is not or I'm to chicken to go out, lol, likely a little of both.
 

Jonboat2Bassboat

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Thanks everyone,

The replies here were much appreciated. They have narrowed my search down to the Sea Hunt and Key West dual console boats. Because of the advice here I finally ?got it? about the difference between common bowriders and sea worthy dual consoles.

Thanks to TPenfield for explaining the difference between a bowrider and a dual console and for showing a graph of the relative height of the bows. THAT was priceless advice.

QBhoy, thanks for letting me know about the Scorpion boats. IF money was no object that is what I would buy.

Old Ironmaker, thanks for referring to me as a well-informed shopper that, as Dirty Harry said, ?A man?s got to know his limitations.? I like to think I know just enough to know to go here to get good answers, as you said.

Roffey, thanks for letting me know you value your life more than the thrill of going out into 3 foot chop.

I am going to post on advice on choosing between a couple of models of Sea Hunt and Key West boats rather than stick it onto the end of this topic.

Thanks again for all your help,

Tom
 

Bayou Dave

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I'm thinking your Larson is a bowrider . . . although not as sloped as the Stingray that the OP is considering.

I see what you mean. Maybe I have a dual console, bowrider, fish 'n ski? :facepalm: :D
 

Lou C

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Of the boats in the DC category take a look at Key West. They are all composite and 100% foam filled like at Boston Whaler but at a much more reasonable price. And unlike BW, KW gives you a choice of engines. A neighbor has a 2005 DC 2020 (20') and it has held up well....
 

jdlough

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I wrote a big dang long thing here and it disappeared. Dang.
At any rate, make sure the bow flares out from the waterline and up on out. My SeaSwirl 2100 DC bow does not flare out, so on the return trip, when bashing thru waves, water shoots straight up, then down on me.
I envy the guys with the flare out bow, that shoots the wave splash sideways.
Also, choose a boat with (or that you can easily latter add) an electric anchor windlass. The only reason I'd ever consider selling my boat and buying another is an electric anchor windlass. If my boat had a pointier bow, I'd add one.
Finally, I love Key West boats, but I REALLY love Sea Hunts. The hull and especially topside designs for Sea Hunts is really so well thought out.
 

Jonboat2Bassboat

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T. Penfield, your post showing the relative slope of a Sting Ray bowrider and a Sea Hunt dual console is exactly the post I was looking for. Have it saved as a favourite now.

I think the ability of a boat to cut through waves is dependent on the angle of entry of the bow and if the bow slopes up from the stern. A Sea Hunt or a Key West is the 1st choice because of the 50 degree entry angle and bow sloping up. I may have to make a 2nd choice though and wanted to know if there is there a good resource for looking up the bow entry angle and bow slope of various other boats? This information and bridge clearance seem to be hard to find.

One 2nd choice boat I am considering is the Crestliner 19 XS with an outboard.

Don't know about the bow entry angle or bow slope.

If possible can you work your magic on showing the bow angle with the yellow and red lines? How do you do that? Knowing the bow entry angle
 

Maclin

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I know you want the thing to have the beam follow on up to the bow, and the vee hull sweep out to keep spray down, here is an example. This is a cuddy but the manufacturer had the same shape for a bow rider. The right side of the pic shows best what I am trying to describe. Almost like a shelf out to the side over the hull, where the vee hull remains narrow until just under the full width of the cap. A better angle would have been from down low looking up at the front of the boat.

hull only.jpg
 
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