trolling plate

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dingbat

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Re: trolling plate

They do and that's why the now discontinued Yamaha 8 Kicker and the Merc 9.9 pro kicker have beefed up lower units and are high thrust. Two strokes absolutely do not last long when operated under heavy loads. [Merc solved the issue by producing the 100, 115 and 125 2+2 motors that run on two cylinders up to about 1500 RPM. They also produce smaller mid size engines with the Big Foot option.

Your explanation makes no sense at all.

A lower unit designed for 200/225 HP is not strong enough to handle the "heavy load" of trolling yet a beefed up, high thrust 9.9 HP is? :eek:

I would have assumed that a lower unit could handle 2.5% of its rated capacity without a problem. I guess I was wrong. :confused:

It takes X amount of thrust to push a boat thru the water. Cutting off 2 cylinders is not going to change that demand. On the contrary, cutting off two cylinders will increase the load on the remaining two cylinders. One would expect that distributing that ?heavy load? on just two cylinders would be detrimental to the longevity of the motor.
 

Mark_VTfisherman

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Re: trolling plate

dingbat- your reply makes a lot of sense. As far as running on two cyls. instead of four: this WOULD be detrimental to the rod bearings and pistons. Compares well to why pistons and rod bearings last longer in a turbocharged gasoline or diesel engine; there is never any slack to rattle anything around. I would speculate that the two that aren't firing probably get more wear.

Just to add fodder to the fire :D I thought I would mention that Mercury promotes this little add-on feature they have where their big 200HP+ motors can be idled way down by turning a knob on the tach. This is for trolling. And I suppose Mercury does this cuz they want more engines of theirs to fail?:facepalm:

Propulsion force has a lot of different components that act on anything moving: torque, impact, point loads, distributed loads, rotational/centrifugal loads, axial loads, accelerating loads, static loads. While in theory some certain load may increase while trolling, engineering math will win the argument that the major loads while trolling are extremely small compared to run 40mph in a 6000# boat at 5500 rpm. While I suppose movement of the hypoid gears at trolling speeds theoretically would facilitate increased wear of the slider/clutch and perhaps the gears there are two factors to consider: that your lubricant in the lower unit should support the gears and bearings (keep them from metal-to-metal contact) better at the lower contact load compared to high RPM; and, that the gears and bearings are designed to withstand full-throttle use at max horsepower of the motor (in my case, 40 HP) so running at 1.75 HP (guessing here) shouldn't stress anything.

I betcha I troll 200+ hours (and probably more) a year with that 1985 motor and I have done it for years. The only thing that has worn out is the plastic pivot bushings cuz as much as love that Suzuki it was never reviewed well for its smoothness at low rpms. I have replaced them about every other year and I think they are due again. $7 plus shipping.

I see no difference between a trolling plate or drift socks or trim tabs as far as the motor is concerned.

Back to the topic:

The automatic trolling plate I use I modified by adding 2 heavy springs. Actually changed out the OEMs as well so I run four heavy springs. It needed that to be manageable and not get blown back and negate its presence. The other mod is hole I drilled in it through which I tied a length of parachute cord. The cord has a loop on the other end which I slip over the pull-start grip while trolling to allow me to pull it u pif I want/need to. Under conditions 98% of the time I pull the rope up over the motor cover and slip the loop onto the head of a steering arm bolt. (I troll from .8mph to 1.8/1.9mph with a 45# MinnKota)

Downside to a trolling plate: I lost about 2.3mph at WOT when I installed it. Take it off, I get it back. With a lot of gear aboard (which is usually :-O) I lose a little more. I get about 29.2 top speed with trolling plate and a lot of fishing equipment. I have clocked 34.x gps with 2 adults aboard but without the electric downriggers, trolling motor, or extra battery aboard. But that isn't that big of a deal to me cuz my light boat is a heck of a lot nicer ride at 22mph and I save wicked noticeable amount of gas slowing down a little, too.
 

Jlawsen

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Re: trolling plate

Like I said in my original post, if you guys want to run them, I really don't care. I choose not to and don't recommend them to anyone, period.

Hey dingbat, did you chime in just to ride the wave of criticisim and make yourself feel better like always or is that comment something your seriously thought through and researched.. Nah..
 

dingbat

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Re: trolling plate

Hey dingbat, did you chime in just to ride the wave of criticisim and make yourself feel better like always or is that comment something your seriously thought through and researched.. Nah..

Ok, I must apologize. I had to read your comments three time before I realized what you where trying to say. You mean loading as in rich, not loading as in torque. Your tangent on the use of heavier gears is what threw me

Yes, cylinder loading can be a problem in some applications but not always. I doubt you?ll find many NE Striper fishermen that would agree with your view point. We spend hours upon hours on the troll using large HP 2 strokes in icy cold air and water temps. Same tools. Different application, different outcomes
 

Mark_VTfisherman

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Re: trolling plate

There is always someone on this board that reads just what they want to then comments without any real background other than a personal experience which may or may not even apply...

Personal experience? Sure - got that. So do the dozens of fishermen who troll Champlain all winter long.

I guess we are all complete idiots enough in our experience to not have any trouble? Protected by the ignorance.
 

JEBar

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Re: trolling plate

over the winter we hope to add Bennett Trim Tabs and a kicker motor to our '04 Sea Pro 180 DC .... the trim tabs carry the highest priority for us and after they are in place, if there is room we hope to add a 15 hp Evinrude E-TEC kicker .... we we have been told that the 15 hp E-TEC will have no problems running at trolling speeds .... if there isn't room we will have to come up with a plan B .... back trolling isn't a viable option with our boat's transom design .... I have no doubt that trying to use buckets or drift socks/trolling' bags would end up in considerable frustration when trying to land a fish .... that pretty much leaves a trolling plate .... is there any brand of trolling plate which folks here have used and found to be effective/reliable

Jim
 

Jlawsen

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Re: trolling plate

Easy Troller might have what you're looking for.
 

JEBar

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Re: trolling plate

Easy Troller might have what you're looking for.


info appreciated .... have saved a link to Easy Troller in the event that we may have to go that route

Jim
 

Teamster

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Re: trolling plate

Why wouldn't there be room for a kicker???
 

JEBar

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Re: trolling plate

Why wouldn't there be room for a kicker???


we have been traveling in our camper for the last 3 months and our boat is at our son's home .... I haven't had a chance to take it to our local dealership and see if there will be room on the transom for both trim tabs and a kicker motor .... our hope is that there will be but just don't know for sure ..consequentlyntl, I'm trying to come up with a plan B .... that said, the pocketbook issue is very much in my mind .... I haven't boat an outboard since '04 so you can imagine the sticker shock ..:eek:

Jim
 

Jlawsen

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Re: trolling plate

we have been traveling in our camper for the last 3 months and our boat is at our son's home .... I haven't had a chance to take it to our local dealership and see if there will be room on the transom for both trim tabs and a kicker motor .... our hope is that there will be but just don't know for sure ..consequentlyntl, I'm trying to come up with a plan B .... that said, the pocketbook issue is very much in my mind .... I haven't boat an outboard since '04 so you can imagine the sticker shock ..:eek:

Jim

Jim, the way to size the kicker or electric trolling motor is by the range that you need to cover. You all know I'm not a fan of trolling plates but if they work for you then I won't argue the point. So let's say the trolling plate gets you down to 2.5mph. The range you then need to cover is 0-2.5 and you need to do that in a head wind and heavy chop because that would be the worst case scenario but a quite common one.

You can usually cover that with a 8-9.9 hp motor. Top of the line will run you about 3500.00 out the door with a kicker mount if you shop it right. That will get you the basics. For a full blown Kicker setup you'll be at around 5000.00 by the time you get the remotes, steering and autopilot installed. If you opt for electric, go with a bow mount and I'd suggest the Minn-Kota Power Drive V-2 in a 80lb range with the iPilot and two Group 27 batteries in either 24v or 12v (parallel) configuration. That gives you the remote control, GPS autopilot and cruise control for around 2000.00 including installation. It also gives you much better control of the boat in wind and waves because a puller will manage the boat much better than a pusher.

The draw back to the electric is needing to recharge the batteries. You can do that with a 2500w generator or pull the boat out and plug it in. You can also haul out the batteries and take them ashore for charging. I find I get about 8 hours of troll time with all my electronics running on two 27's. That's not running the stereo. With a gas kicker you just run it off your main tank but you can't run both at the same time unless your fuel tank has dual pickups. If you try it with a T you'll lean out one of the motors.
 

JEBar

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Re: trolling plate

You all know I'm not a fan of trolling plates but if they work for you then I won't argue the point.

You can usually cover that with a 8-9.9 hp motor. Top of the line will run you about 3500.00 out the door with a kicker mount if you shop it right. That will get you the basics. For a full blown Kicker setup you'll be at around 5000.00 by the time you get the remotes, steering and autopilot installed.


excellent advice .... don't believe we will go all the way with an autopilot level setup .... the reason for selecting the Evinrude 15hp E-TEC it is the smallest I could find in a brand I like that is made in this country which is important to me .... the Mercury and smaller Evinrudes are no longer made here .... a trolling plate would be my last resort .... have never used one but somehow I just don't like the looks of them .... I do know a couple of fellows who use them and they do see to be happy .... your $5,000 estimate seems to be pretty close and with that amount of money involved I'm really trying to do my homework

Jim
 

Teamster

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Re: trolling plate

For the life of me I can't figure how there would not be room for a kicker and trim tabs on any boat,.......???

The new 15 horse E-Tec is a good choice, I see they now have a integrated trim/tilt,....
 

Jlawsen

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Re: trolling plate

For the life of me I can't figure how there would not be room for a kicker and trim tabs on any boat,.......???

The new 15 horse E-Tec is a good choice, I see they now have a integrated trim/tilt,....

When you mount a kicker you mount it on a kicker plate with a setback. It'll clear just fine. I make mine out of aluminum and build them for the setback I need. You can buy them in various setbacks and some are adjustable.
 

JEBar

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Re: trolling plate

For the life of me I can't figure how there would not be room for a kicker and trim tabs on any boat,.......???

The new 15 horse E-Tec is a good choice, I see they now have a integrated trim/tilt,....


there may well be plenty of room and I sure hope you are correct .... I've never undertaken a project like this so I have no reference points on which to rely .... no Evinrude dealer I've visited has had a 15 hp E-TEC in stock for me to look at but as you note, the reports I have heard are very favorable .... I do know that any kicker would have to be mounted on the same side as the steering wheel .... with my weight and that of the motor the trim tabs would be absolutely essential

Jim
 

JEBar

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Re: trolling plate

When you mount a kicker you mount it on a kicker plate with a setback. It'll clear just fine. I make mine out of aluminum and build them for the setback I need. You can buy them in various setbacks and some are adjustable.


I have seen a few kicker motors mounted via using a setback plate .... hopefully one that would work is available for our boat

Jim
 

Teamster

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Re: trolling plate

Panther Marine makes some nice kicker mounting brackets,...

Last week I fished the FLW Walleye Tour as a amature and saw lot's of neww 15 horse E-Tec kickers, They seem to work very well,...
 

Jlawsen

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Re: trolling plate

Panther Marine makes some nice kicker mounting brackets,...

Last week I fished the FLW Walleye Tour as a amature and saw lot's of neww 15 horse E-Tec kickers, They seem to work very well,...

The technology is sure well above the others. I wonder if that's why Yamaha discontinued their famous 8hp kicker. The only thing I've heard derogatory about any of the E-Tecs lately is that it can be difficult to get parts. That may just be fallout from the first couple of years when they were still working out the bugs. I haven't heard of anyone complain about them breaking down lately and if they don't break why sweat parts? I like Evinrude for taking a big risk and giving us a choice. I still run Merc's but hey, that don't mean I'm smart.
 

JEBar

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Re: trolling plate

I've never actually seen an E-TEC 15 .... I have friends and relatives in the upper Midwest who use them and are very happy with their performance .... they also say they are very fuel efficient .... when I first started researching kicker motors I looked at Merc 9.9's and would have probably gone that route until I learned Merc has moved their production to China .... the E-TEC 15 is still made in the US

Jim
 
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