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  • #16
    Re: trolling plate

    Originally posted by Jlawsen View Post
    Dragging buckets and plates are probably o.k. on an I/O but if you think about it, you're running that motor under a heavier than normal load for long periods of time. These methods are really hard on two stroke outboards. The four strokes seem to deal with it a little better as long as you give them a good high rpm run after you're done or if they start acting up...
    Eh?? Hard on the motor? Hard on 2-strokes? Start acting up? I don't even have any idea how many hours I have trolled my 1985 Suzuki DT40. There is no way in the world you can tell me that my motor is going to take more wear at idle than it does running 90% WOT jouncing through 1-2' waves. Can you imagine a boat motor manufacturer saying, "oh, buy our outboard for your fishing boat. But don't fish with it!!"
    Clean feet are happy feet; same for boats.
    1964 MFG Niagara Deluxe
    1969 MFG Edinboro

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    • #17
      Re: trolling plate

      Originally posted by Mark_VTfisherman View Post
      Eh?? Hard on the motor? Hard on 2-strokes? Start acting up? I don't even have any idea how many hours I have trolled my 1985 Suzuki DT40. There is no way in the world you can tell me that my motor is going to take more wear at idle than it does running 90% WOT jouncing through 1-2' waves. Can you imagine a boat motor manufacturer saying, "oh, buy our outboard for your fishing boat. But don't fish with it!!"
      There is always someone on this board that reads just what they want to then comments without any real background other than a personal experience which may or may not even apply. The only thing I can tell you is that there isn't one Outboard motor manufacturer (or I/O) that offers a trolling plate option for their motors or propulsion systems. Stop and ask yourself why that is.

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      • #18
        Re: trolling plate

        Originally posted by Jlawsen View Post
        Dragging buckets and plates are probably o.k. on an I/O but if you think about it, you're running that motor under a heavier than normal load for long periods of time. These methods are really hard on two stroke outboards. The four strokes seem to deal with it a little better as long as you give them a good high rpm run after you're done or if they start acting up.

        Don't read this like an armchair opinion, it's not. I've had to fix a lot of motors that failed early in life because of this. I call them poor man's kicker motors and if that's all you can afford then you make do with what you have. That's cool just know that you can be bringing on early engine failure.

        My advice, run these while you're saving you pennies for a kicker motor.
        Ayuh,.... With an I/O, yer doin' yer driveline a Favor,....

        The hardest thing an I/O sees is Trolling,...
        The constant loading, 'n unloading of the gears 'n splines, from the boat pushin', then bein' pushed, Kills the coupler, if not kept Greased...
        I'm sure outboards see the same thing, 'n suffer the same abuse...

        I've been trollin' Lake Ontario for goin' on 15 years now...
        I've never used a drive mounted brake...
        I started out usin' drift socks, or trollin' bags, same things, different names, 'n manufacturers...
        That's because all the Pro-boats I've been on use 'em...

        Over the years, I've refined my trollin' system, to a 3 point attack,...

        Point #1, the 1 I use the least now, is the trollin' socks, But, tied off on the Foreward cleats, 'n the retrieve cord tied to the aft cleats,...
        This keeps the bags nice, 'n tight to the sides of the hull, or under it, 'n Outa the way of Fishin' off the transom...

        Point #2 was adding Waayyy Over-sized Bennett trim tabs,....
        When I drop 'em to Full Down,... They Really slow the hull, as they're the 12"x 18" tabs, where the hull calls for the 9x9s, or 9x12s...

        Point #3, is my Prop,...
        It's an ole L&S Torque-Shift prop,... I have it set up to troll at 11" of pitch, 'n it'll shift up to 'bout 20" on plane...
        I also used the heaviest springs for it, which holds it in a lower pitch, longer...

        Now-a-days,... Just choppin' the throttle to idle gives me 'bout 1.5 to 2mpg...
        Drop the over-sized tabs, 'n it drops to 3/4 to 1.5 mph....
        Deploy the socks, 'n I can run 1000 rpms, 'n Still be at Sub-1 mph...
        At idle, my gps often says I ain't even movin'...

        And,... at 1000 rpms, the driveline slack is pretty much Gone, so that saves the coupler splines(along with plenty of Grease )

        There's Lotsa ways to skin a cat,... 'n That's My system....

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        • #19
          Re: trolling plate

          Originally posted by Jlawsen View Post
          There is always someone on this board that reads just what they want to then comments without any real background other than a personal experience which may or may not even apply. The only thing I can tell you is that there isn't one Outboard motor manufacturer (or I/O) that offers a trolling plate option for their motors or propulsion systems. Stop and ask yourself why that is.
          My 2 stroke pushes a #6K boat at 800-900 RPM, 200-250 hours a year while trolling. No problems. Not even a fouled plug. It sounds like Mark does doesn't have an issue with his Suzuki either.

          If you keep the motor tuned up and run good oil and fuel,you will not have an issue trolling a 2 stroke.

          As for the OEM trolling plate, why would an OEM offer something as an option that maybe 0.01% of all users would buy. It financially doesn't make sense.
          ....

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          • #20
            Re: trolling plate

            Please explain why the "heavy load" is not an issue with a small kicker with substantual less HP.
            They do and that's why the now discontinued Yamaha 8 Kicker and the Merc 9.9 pro kicker have beefed up lower units and are high thrust. Two strokes absolutely do not last long when operated under heavy loads. Merc solved the issue by producing the 100, 115 and 125 2+2 motors that run on two cylinders up to about 1500 RPM. They also produce smaller mid size engines with the Big Foot option.

            Like I said in my original post, if you guys want to run them, I really don't care. I choose not to and don't recommend them to anyone, period.

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            • #21
              Re: trolling plate

              Originally posted by Jlawsen View Post
              They do and that's why the now discontinued Yamaha 8 Kicker and the Merc 9.9 pro kicker have beefed up lower units and are high thrust. Two strokes absolutely do not last long when operated under heavy loads. [Merc solved the issue by producing the 100, 115 and 125 2+2 motors that run on two cylinders up to about 1500 RPM. They also produce smaller mid size engines with the Big Foot option.
              ....

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              • #22
                Re: trolling plate

                dingbat- your reply makes a lot of sense. As far as running on two cyls. instead of four: this WOULD be detrimental to the rod bearings and pistons. Compares well to why pistons and rod bearings last longer in a turbocharged gasoline or diesel engine; there is never any slack to rattle anything around. I would speculate that the two that aren't firing probably get more wear.

                Just to add fodder to the fire I thought I would mention that Mercury promotes this little add-on feature they have where their big 200HP+ motors can be idled way down by turning a knob on the tach. This is for trolling. And I suppose Mercury does this cuz they want more engines of theirs to fail?

                Propulsion force has a lot of different components that act on anything moving: torque, impact, point loads, distributed loads, rotational/centrifugal loads, axial loads, accelerating loads, static loads. While in theory some certain load may increase while trolling, engineering math will win the argument that the major loads while trolling are extremely small compared to run 40mph in a 6000# boat at 5500 rpm. While I suppose movement of the hypoid gears at trolling speeds theoretically would facilitate increased wear of the slider/clutch and perhaps the gears there are two factors to consider: that your lubricant in the lower unit should support the gears and bearings (keep them from metal-to-metal contact) better at the lower contact load compared to high RPM; and, that the gears and bearings are designed to withstand full-throttle use at max horsepower of the motor (in my case, 40 HP) so running at 1.75 HP (guessing here) shouldn't stress anything.

                I betcha I troll 200+ hours (and probably more) a year with that 1985 motor and I have done it for years. The only thing that has worn out is the plastic pivot bushings cuz as much as love that Suzuki it was never reviewed well for its smoothness at low rpms. I have replaced them about every other year and I think they are due again. $7 plus shipping.

                I see no difference between a trolling plate or drift socks or trim tabs as far as the motor is concerned.

                Back to the topic:

                The automatic trolling plate I use I modified by adding 2 heavy springs. Actually changed out the OEMs as well so I run four heavy springs. It needed that to be manageable and not get blown back and negate its presence. The other mod is hole I drilled in it through which I tied a length of parachute cord. The cord has a loop on the other end which I slip over the pull-start grip while trolling to allow me to pull it u pif I want/need to. Under conditions 98% of the time I pull the rope up over the motor cover and slip the loop onto the head of a steering arm bolt. (I troll from .8mph to 1.8/1.9mph with a 45# MinnKota)

                Downside to a trolling plate: I lost about 2.3mph at WOT when I installed it. Take it off, I get it back. With a lot of gear aboard (which is usually :-O) I lose a little more. I get about 29.2 top speed with trolling plate and a lot of fishing equipment. I have clocked 34.x gps with 2 adults aboard but without the electric downriggers, trolling motor, or extra battery aboard. But that isn't that big of a deal to me cuz my light boat is a heck of a lot nicer ride at 22mph and I save wicked noticeable amount of gas slowing down a little, too.
                Clean feet are happy feet; same for boats.
                1964 MFG Niagara Deluxe
                1969 MFG Edinboro

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                • #23
                  Re: trolling plate

                  Like I said in my original post, if you guys want to run them, I really don't care. I choose not to and don't recommend them to anyone, period.

                  Hey dingbat, did you chime in just to ride the wave of criticisim and make yourself feel better like always or is that comment something your seriously thought through and researched.. Nah..

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                  • #24
                    Re: trolling plate

                    Originally posted by Jlawsen View Post
                    Hey dingbat, did you chime in just to ride the wave of criticisim and make yourself feel better like always or is that comment something your seriously thought through and researched.. Nah..
                    ....

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                    • #25
                      Re: trolling plate

                      Originally posted by Jlawsen View Post
                      There is always someone on this board that reads just what they want to then comments without any real background other than a personal experience which may or may not even apply...
                      Personal experience? Sure - got that. So do the dozens of fishermen who troll Champlain all winter long.

                      I guess we are all complete idiots enough in our experience to not have any trouble? Protected by the ignorance.
                      Clean feet are happy feet; same for boats.
                      1964 MFG Niagara Deluxe
                      1969 MFG Edinboro

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: trolling plate

                        over the winter we hope to add Bennett Trim Tabs and a kicker motor to our '04 Sea Pro 180 DC .... the trim tabs carry the highest priority for us and after they are in place, if there is room we hope to add a 15 hp Evinrude E-TEC kicker .... we we have been told that the 15 hp E-TEC will have no problems running at trolling speeds .... if there isn't room we will have to come up with a plan B .... back trolling isn't a viable option with our boat's transom design .... I have no doubt that trying to use buckets or drift socks/trolling' bags would end up in considerable frustration when trying to land a fish .... that pretty much leaves a trolling plate .... is there any brand of trolling plate which folks here have used and found to be effective/reliable

                        Jim

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                        • #27
                          Re: trolling plate

                          Easy Troller might have what you're looking for.

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                          • #28
                            Re: trolling plate

                            Originally posted by Jlawsen View Post
                            Easy Troller might have what you're looking for.

                            info appreciated .... have saved a link to Easy Troller in the event that we may have to go that route

                            Jim

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                            • #29
                              Re: trolling plate

                              Why wouldn't there be room for a kicker???

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                              • #30
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                                Re: trolling plate

                                Originally posted by Teamster View Post
                                Why wouldn't there be room for a kicker???
                                I think he's talking about pocket book room.

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