2018 Suzuki DF30A Knocking sound for a few seconds on cold start

[Clawtooth]

I have a 2018 Suzuki DF30A, mounted on a JV15 center console Carolina Skiff. The engine makes a rattling or knocking type sound when I start it for the first time of the day. Last year around this time of year is when I remember first hearing something, but I thought it just sounded like exhaust sounds before water filled the passage, or maybe just the combustion sound in the cylinder. I am not sure if it is louder now or just bothering me more. Could also be related to the temperature dropping outside.

Besides the noise, it runs perfectly and I have not noticed any unusual sounds from it at any rpm. I have taken very good care of the engine and have not run it hard. I usually cruise to my fishing spots at about 4300 rpms after getting on plane. I have changed the oil more often than required.

I run Seafoam in the tank at 1 ounce per gallon as a preventative measure, and I installed a water separating filter with site glass shortly after purchasing the boat.

I can only estimate how many hours are on the engine since I have only had the oil light flash the one time for the 20 hour service, I have always changed it and reset before it flashed again. I am not sure if this engine is suppose show the hours on the rpm gauge like the DF70A that I have on my pontoon boat does, but it is not doing it at this point. I would be shocked if this engine has 200 hours on it, maybe not much over 100. Most of the places I fish are only 15 - 30 min ride from the ramps.

I uploaded a video to You tube so anyone that is interested can take a listen to what it is doing. I am hoping someone here may have seen this issue before and can let me know what is going on, whether it is something normal or bad. If anyone has any advice, I would be glad to hear it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OB3xesKHUo

Thanks in advance.

 

[lakensea]

Since it's still under warranty, why in the world would you come here instead of bringing in to your dealer?

 

[Clawtooth]

Since it's still under warranty, why in the world would you come here instead of bringing in to your dealer?

Thanks for your reply. There are a number of reasons why I posted the issue here.
1 is that I take pride in the fact that since I bought my first car at 17 years old I have never taken a machine of mine to another mechanic to have it repaired. I may end up doing that if I do not find a resolution in my own testing, or if what I find would be a very expensive problem.
2 This issue to me is an unusual problem, and I have searched extensively for others who describe these symptoms and have not found much information. I feel that me posting these symptoms here and then later find a resolution, will add to the collective knowledge that these forums are designed for.
3 There are good and bad shops, good and bad mechanics. I do not know of a shop that I can trust completely and I want to have an idea of what could be going on before I just take a shops word for this issue either way. We have all heard stories of people being told this or that or its normal and just run it. Its my butt out there that could get stranded and I want to have faith in what ever resolution I end up with.

In the next couple days, I will be pulling the head cover off and checking the tappet clearance and general condition of the cam and other components under the cover, and also pulling the lower unit to rule anything out there. I also rarely run the engine each trip to even come close to emptying the fuel tank, and I end up just replacing about two gallons, so I am also going to drain the fuel tank and get some fresh fuel in there to make sure the fuel is as fresh as it can be, and rule that out. Even as I attempt to work this out on my own, I welcome any constructive input others may have on this.

Thanks.

 

[jasper60103]

I have the same engine, and bought it brand new.
I believe in PM as well.
I changed my engine oil and filter after about the first 10 hours of use.
Then again before putting it away for the winter.

I can't say for sure about the noise. May not be anything to worry about,
but I've been listening to 2 strokes way too long, LOL.
I do have a video of my motor first start, but the water stirring
around is drowning out any engine noise. It was probably warmed-up already too.
Not much help, but please keep us posted. Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c72tAwOEpeM

 

[Clawtooth]

I have the same engine, and bought it brand new.
I believe in PM as well.
I changed my engine oil and filter after about the first 10 hours of use.
Then again before putting it away for the winter.

I can't say for sure about the noise. May not be anything to worry about,
but I've been listening to 2 strokes way too long, LOL.
I do have a video of my motor first start, but the water stirring
around is drowning out any engine noise. It was probably warmed-up already too.
Not much help, but please keep us posted. Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c72tAwOEpeM

Well just to update you, After thinking back to last year and looking at the video and starting the engine a couple more times I realize that this noise has in fact become louder and more consistent. Until recently the noise was faint and I did not even notice it each time I started the engine in the morning. There is a big difference in hearing something that lasts a couple seconds every couple weeks and having a video to listen to it over and over again. I am not sure when the first time I heard it but it would have been one of those things that wont happen when you want someone else to listen to it.

I am to the point now that I am 99 percent certain that it is in the crankcase so I will have to get it to a shop to get it diagnosed and see about a warranty repair. I will let you know when I find out more. This is the first time I have had a major problem with any of my Suzuki outboards and I hope they stand behind it.

 

[jasper60103]

Well just to update you, After thinking back to last year and looking at the video and starting the engine a couple more times I realize that this noise has in fact become louder and more consistent. Until recently the noise was faint and I did not even notice it each time I started the engine in the morning. There is a big difference in hearing something that lasts a couple seconds every couple weeks and having a video to listen to it over and over again. I am not sure when the first time I heard it but it would have been one of those things that wont happen when you want someone else to listen to it.

I am to the point now that I am 99 percent certain that it is in the crankcase so I will have to get it to a shop to get it diagnosed and see about a warranty repair. I will let you know when I find out more. This is the first time I have had a major problem with any of my Suzuki outboards and I hope they stand behind it.

Yea, keep me updated. Thanks.

 

[Clawtooth]

I dropped the boat off at the shop Dec 10th and they called me back the next day and said they had started it a couple times and did not hear the knock. I took it fishing about 3 days after I picked the boat up and it knocked. I had already gave them the video clips, so he says he sent the clips and the diagnostic data to the Suzuki rep to see if they have any guidance. I have not heard back from anyone yet.



I deleted the original You Tube video that I posted above when I made some additions to it. I did not realize I would not be able to edit the original post so I will add the updated video here in case anyone is interested in hearing / seeing it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbDpp33Bauc

I am also including part of the diagnostic print out showing the engine hours, and various RPM's

 

[raczekp1]

did you notice this noice if you start motor with the rope start?
did you check oil preasure with the guage? just you need to unscreaw oil preasure sensor and contackr sensor to the block, and in sensor place mount end of oil guage.
this noise is conected with oil preasure

 

[Clawtooth]

did you notice this noice if you start motor with the rope start?
did you check oil preasure with the guage? just you need to unscreaw oil preasure sensor and contackr sensor to the block, and in sensor place mount end of oil guage.
this noise is conected with oil preasure

I have not started the engine using the pull start.

I think you are correct about it being related to oil pressure, I thought so too, that is why I turned the engine over with the lanyard removed to build oil pressure. The mechanic showed me a video of him starting the engine with an oil pressure gauge connected. it took about 5 seconds for pressure to build then it instantly went up to about 75 pounds. I asked and he agreed to send me the video but I have not heard from him since picking up the boat. One odd thing the mechanic pointed out in the video was that the needle was bouncing when it got to about 75 lbs. It was not steady.

I hope to hear from the mechanic or Suzuki soon.

 

[raczekp1]

arrow can moves up and down in small range, its normal.
oil preasure is regulateb by spring and ball . its usaly under powerhead at oil pick upp, where the hose is atached
you have to buy oil preasure guage and check

 

[Prophammer]

OK, this reminds me of my 9.9 Mercury , it was shimmed too tight in the foot , I had to adjust pinion depth (if that's what its called inside a lower unit) it had a constant knock until I added some extra shims, I hope this helps

 

[Clawtooth]

Just a little update on what has been going on. The knock seems a little worse, The engine is knocking on every cold start no matter the outside temp, and I was out fishing a couple days ago and noticed it knock some when I restarted engine after being anchored out for a couple hours. I went out fishing again yesterday and before starting the engine the first time in the morning, I cranked the engine over for 8 seconds with emergency stop lanyard removed, to build oil pressure and the engine did not knock at all when I put the lanyard back on and started the engine. My educated guess is a bad tolerance between a rod and the crank and the oil pressure is masking the sound once the pressure builds after 5 or 6 seconds.

The Suzuki shop never got back to me, so I called them back yesterday. After a short discussion with him, he recommend I call Suzuki customer care.

I called Suzuki this morning and, after explaining that despite the fact that the shop did not hear the noise while starting it on muffs, that the engine was knocking every time I started it cold and I pointed them to the video I posted on You Tube for evidence of the noise it makes. They eventually told me to take the boat back to the shop, and they would work with the shop to figure this out.

Without going into too much detail in what was said, I will just say that the thought of continuing to run the engine until it either started knocking all the time or blowing up and leaving me stranded on the lagoon or in bad weather was not something I wanted to risk. Bad things can happen out there.

Called the shop and they wont be able to look at my engine again until next Thursday. Wish me luck

 

[raczekp1]

if the noise is every time when you start you can expect when you blow hole in crankcase.
i would spleat powerhead and work on crankshaft and conrod

 

[jasper60103]

Well the good news is the dealer can no longer say its not noticeable. Hopefully Suzuki will act on this.
BTW, did you buy your motor through a dealership or online? Shouldn't matter either way though, IMO.

Keep us posted. Thanks.

 

[Clawtooth]

I bought the engine new from a dealer, hanging on the back of a new Carolina Skiff. I did not take the boat back to the dealer I purchased it from because they are not local to me.

I was shocked when the mechanic called me and told me they did not hear the knock the first time I took it to him. He said they started it on muffs so that may have been why they did not hear it. Now that Suzuki is involved I am hoping he puts more time into investigating this issue. I believe the mechanic wants to help, I cant blame him for not wanting spend a lot of time on the engine when he wasn't being paid for it. I hope they go put the boat in the water and start it.

 

[jasper60103]

Any update?

 

[Clawtooth]

Any update?

Thanks for asking. I have a lot to say but I am pretty disappointed right now with the engine and with Suzuki itself, so I will refrain from saying much while working through this. The boat has been at the shop for about a month, and it sounds like it may be another month or more, waiting on parts, before they get it back together. I am attaching a pic of what it looked like sitting on the bench yesterday.

 

[racerone]

Just look at all the parts.----Hopefully warranty will cover the labour.----Yes these small 4 strokes are great when they run.-----Know of an Evinrude version of that motor.-----Lower unit got water in it and froze.-------Motor was tossed out and laying outside in a dealers yard.-----Still thinking of picking it up cheap for parts !

 

[lakensea]

What did they say is wrong and what part(s) are they waiting for?

 

[jasper60103]

That looks like a complete tear down. I wonder how it came to that instead of replacing it.
I can imagine your pain. Hopefully they will get a working motor back to you soon.