AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

[MattJohnsonFLA]

Hey everyone,

Well after working through my last set of issues with the oil cooler I was able to get this motor to crank but not turn over. Noticed that there was a small but decent leak coming in from the transom where the clamping ring and the transom meet towards the bottom of the ring (appears to be here). Luckily a co-worker has a lot more experience with boats than I and prompted me to pull my starter to take a closer look for why she isn't starting easily. So when I pulled off the starter a solid 1/2 cup of saltwater (tasted it) came out, and the grease in the bell housing was definately mixed with water as well. Fixing the leak at the clamping ring shouldn't be an issue, a little 5200 after a good cleaning would take care of that BUT now with water in the bell housing I am not so sure I diagnosed it correctly.

After the several inputs I received at work for the culprit I was hoping for some direction here. For water to enter the bell housing, is the leak located where the sterndrive and gearing enters the bell housing from the aft?

Another theory was that the boat was filled with water either by a partial sinking or excessive rain water (doesn't explain the salt water)

You can see where that there was a decent amount of water in the starter based on the corrosion of the end cap (internally) and it wasn't cleaned or serviced for some time, either just trying to dump the boat or out of ignorance of the issue.

Well that's what I have so far, on the bright side the starter is still in good shape.

"So I got that going for me (goonga la goonga) - Carl Caddy Shack

 

[captmello]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

If the water is coming in through the bellhousing, then it would be originating at the ujoint bellows. If that is the case, I would expect the ujoints to be shot as well as the bearings is the flywheel cover.

Have you pulled the upper gear box yet? Here's how.

http://forums.iboats.com/mercruiser-i-o-inboard-engines-outdrives/outdrive-side-pin-removal-309095.html

 

[Maclin]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

I am thinking that the starter will soon corrode and fail now that it has lost that "pickling" solution. :grumpy:

 

[Grub54891]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

A little 5200 smeared on the bell won't last to long. I'd look for bellows,or worse: rotten transom.

 

[HorizonblueDK]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

The starter on my AQ 170 was also quite wet inside when I bought the boat. Don't know exactly where it came from, but the u-joint bellow was rotten, and the bell housing bearings were rusty, so it is probably sea water that came in that way and was slushed around. I managed to save it, by taking it apart and cleaning it up.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

you need a new u-joint bellows, and most likely a new u-joint, starter, etc.

 

[MattJohnsonFLA]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

Phew how time flies..Well, it was definately my U-Joint Bellows. Going to go ahead and pull them this weekend. Had the starter re-built, wasn't too damaged inside (replaced the solenoid etc.) looks like they are working. Going to go ahead and see about the bearings, from what I hear, if they are shot I need a professional mechanic to replace them as they are a press fit? Hearing conflicting stories on this issue... regardless I will find out more once the unit is removed. Transom looks to be in decent shape and I feel that any additional leaks around the clamping ring can be solved with a marine adhesive. I may just go ahead and replace several other O-rings in that area when I pull the out-drive. It'll be fun to get into this thing, I just hope I don't find too many more issues. Any suggestions on what else to look for?
Thanks a bunch!

 

[captmello]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

So do you have the upper gear box removed now? the bearings in the flywheel cover are surely shot having been exposed to salt water as well as the ujoints. depending on your mechanical abilities, you may be able to replace them yourself...

Before doing all of that work I would continue to work on the motor first. the AQ170 is an old motor and having been used in salt water, the exhaust manifold may be shot which is not an easy part to come by. My point is, the outdrive, ujoints, flywheel cover bearings are known issues, keep digging before spending too much money without going through everything first.

IMO.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

Fill out the profile.
You might be close to someone who can help.

 

[MattJohnsonFLA]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

Well I found out why he sold the boat, transom shield pins are frozen in place like they were welded in. Not only were the keeper pins cut and filed down so that I had to try and drill and tap them with easy-outs but the stainless pins could not be removed. After fully drilling out the keeper set screw on one side, we proceeded to heat it with a torch and tried first using an impact wrench to back them out. Then when that failed, a sledge and punch, finally just said forget it and I am taking it over to a local machinist, one who won’t charge me more than the boats worth to fix it. If he doesn’t feel that they can be drilled well that is a horse of a different color! Appreciate the help everyone, this is definitely a project boat! Looks like I may be pulling the engine out anyway!

 

[MattJohnsonFLA]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

Capt Mellow, not really worried about the exhaust manifold at this time. It is an old motor but I've seen it run with water through the entire assembly and I have checked the oil constantly throughout this whole process. If there were water running in from the engine side this thing would have seized weeks ago. Also, the oil is staying clean so I don't think I have an issue there (knock on wood). It would be in my best interest to make this fresh water cooled but at this juncture I don't plan on sinking additional money into that department until I am sure I can fix this outdrive without blowing my budget. If the hull were welded aluminum I would make it work and just repower when the time comes, but with a riveted aluminum hull I will end up passing on that option. I appreciate the advice and luckily I have a gent here at work whos family has owned a boat manufacturing plant for some time. Not a bad resource when he's in town! Thanks agian for the help.

 

[captmello]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

Why are you removing the pivot pins? Typically there is no reason to remove the entire outdrive unless you are redoing the transom of the boat, or perhaps rebuilding the intermediate assembly.

 

[MattJohnsonFLA]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

Captmellow,
As it was explained to me, you have to pull the outdrive to replace the U-Joint bellows. Now, before I go further, I was informed by my slip neighbor that you can pull the upper unit and do not have to remove the pivot pins, but when I discussed this with my buddy / knowledge base he informed me that that was incorrect and that you have to pull the outdrive in order to get to the bellows (u-joint). Are we wrong?, ‘cause that might be some great news. Not going at this completely blind, I have the Seloc manual but it wasn’t specific on the steps required to replace the bellows. Again, I appreciate the help!

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

take the seloc manual and throw it away. It is not even worth the paper its printed on.

go to the adults only section at the top of the forum and there is a proceedure from Don S on just pulling the upper unit on an AQ series drive

there is also the links to the free factory manuals.

I myself choose to remove the complete drive, and verify that the water connection casting has not dissolved to oblivion. vs just pulling the upper

 

[captmello]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

If you look t post #2 I linked the upper gear box removal procedure. It's good to have help from people who know what they are doing, but it sounds like your friend is steering you wrong...

 

[MattJohnsonFLA]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

Capt Mellow / Scott D,

Thanks for the input. My buddy has a lot of experience but never changed this upper unit in order to work on the bellows etc. The diagram in the link is very difficult to understand (sarcasm), I don’ think I will have any other issues with this besides the condition of the U-Joints / Gimble Bearings etc. I am concerned about some of the other seals in the arrangement so I plan on grabbing those from the shop as well just in case I have to change them. I appreciate the help and hopefully I won’t have too much more to do before we get her in the water!!! Thanks again for the help guys! I'll throw up photos when she is seaworthy

 

[captmello]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

Post what you find/see once the upper is off. We'll be glad to help you as you go along.

 

[MattJohnsonFLA]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

Well now, THAT was a royal pain in the *****. So, the U-joints were corroded to all hell but still functioning. End result was that the joints were both completely frozen to their respective shafts. So much so that I ended up bending a ?? plate steel wedge in the process. Luckily, physics overcame the issue, anything is possible with the right fulcrum and lever! So now I have a much more complete view of the status of this engine and vessel. It pains me to say this, but repowering this hull will not be an option, so what I can fix on this motor I will so long as I don?t have to put any more real cash back into her. Not a negative outlook just a more realistic one.
That being said, we replaced the bellows and was looking into replacing the sealing ring for the transom shield to the bell housing. It appears someone had attempted it before but the bolts were fused / distenegrating so we decided to leave well enough alone. I had noticed a small leak coming from the shield that may just be where it mounts to the transom (5200 easy fix). So now the only major issue I am having is with the shifter assembly. I will start another thread for this issue as I?d say the leak in the bell housing / starter is complete. Thank you EVERYONE for the help, it was much appreciated!

 

[captmello]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

There is no doubt that the ujoints are bad and the PDS bearings as well. Is there any play in the PDS (primary drive shaft)? Give it a wiggle and see if it moves up and down, side to side.

With the outdrive off, I would get the motor running and see how it runs You can still hook up the muffs and run the motor with the upper gear box off.

 

[MattJohnsonFLA]

Re: AQ170 Water in Starter? Where's it coming from?

captmellow,

There isn't any play in the shaft and the bearing doesn't sound like it's shot. I'll see how she runs and let you know!