Welcome Guest - Sign Up today
Welcome Guest - Sign Up today

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

No starter, no battery, no positive terminal. 4.3GS PDMA 1994 Invader Bravo ES180

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • No starter, no battery, no positive terminal. 4.3GS PDMA 1994 Invader Bravo ES180

    Hi there. I purchased a 1994 GW Invader Bravo with a dual axle trailer from Craigslist. I'd seen pictures and the price was right so I assumed I'd have to put in a transom, stringers and deck. After picking up the boat I'm a little shocked.
    I can see down the engine bilge and it looks great. The ski locker floor feels stiff and the stringers on both sides feel solid, the deck doesn't feel soft but the drivers side has detached from the stringer and I can feel it holding just above the stringer. Anyway, the real problem is under the passenger deck. It looks like the boat hit one of the skids or something, the fiberglass is cracked on a strake on the left front. The crack goes thru completely someone has added what looks like poly filler in an attempt to seal it up. All will need to be sanded down, properly patched filled and gel-coated. Before I get to that though, I want to know more about this engine. The guy I purchased it from first told me the engine was free but when he delivered it he said he tried to turn it over with a ratchet but was only loosening the bolt. I'm not sure what he was doing. When I opened the engine cover I quickly see an empty battery tray, a ground wire, no positive terminal and no starter. I then see what appears to be the starter wire with it's 2 silanoid wires attached. This is routed to where the missing starter should be so I'm assuming that I can jump power to it, and ground and at least test the trim pump. Yep, that worked. But now I need to put in a battery, and a terminal and wire. Here's where I get a little forgetful. I'm pretty sure this wire goes to the starter bank as well and maybe one side of the sylanoid. I can't find an easy schematic and I don't see a remote sylanoid anywhere.

    So I'm assuming that if I install a starter, and connect what is already there, I just need a positive battery cable and terminal and then the other end connects to the large connection at the starter. I'm pretty sure this is right but want to make sure as it's been 15 years since I've played with a boat.

    Also, I've removed all the belts on the motor and I'd hoped to have all the plugs out to try to see if I could rotate the crank by hand. If anyone has any other tips on this, I'm just trying to figure out if shes really siezed or just hydrolic locked.

    Anyway, lots to think about. Getting dark so I guess I'll wait till morning to pull the last couple plugs and see if she will turn over.

    That seatback needs recovering by a professional.
    The 4.3GS

    I've never seen a boat with a 2nd cap. Also, in the engine compartment, there is a large preformed piece of fiberglass that goes on both sides of the engine and looks like it will make removing the engine a pain.

    More thoughts, Can anyone tell me about the construction methods of GW Invaders? This boat isn't rotten but the build quality seems "quick". The whole tray in the engine compartment and front seats that are not part of the top cap but a seprate cap put on before the top went on.

    Anyone with more info about this boat and it's construction methods please chime in. Trying to look back to the transom is a real tight. The overhang from the cap makes it hard to fit myeslf inside.

    So, just to make sure I'm doing this right.

    I know I need at least, a starter and battery. I'll pick up a battery tomarrow but I don't want to buy the starter unless the motor isn't siezed. Maybe I could find a local guy with a drop in 4.3. I'm near Jax Florida so go figure.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by chaiyz; November 9th, 2013, 06:55 PM.

  • #2
    Re: No starter, no battery, no positive terminal. 4.3GS PDMA 1994 Invader Bravo ES18

    Having a hard time posting a whole photobucket album. Anyone got any tips?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: No starter, no battery, no positive terminal. 4.3GS PDMA 1994 Invader Bravo ES18

      to iboats

      Looks like you have a bunch of stuff going on so lets start with the engine. As time progresses we can get into other things. Do you know the serial number of the engine? the serial number is usually found on the flame arrestor cover. If not how about what size is it (appears to be small block V8).

      Pull all the plugs and squirt some olil in each cylinder, let it set a couple hours the try to turn over by hand.

      The positive battery cable goes to the starter terminal but uses a 90 amp fusible link between battery and alternator and rest of the engine. Get back with this and we can move on
      Last edited by AllDodge; November 10th, 2013, 07:28 AM.
      94 Formula 27PC Custom 509MPI MEFI3 , B3 XR
      95 Rinker 232 w/ 7.4L Carb 0F425011 B1 0F486471
      07 Seadoo GTX
      Merc Adults Only VP Adults Only
      G-Dad always said "First Liar doesn't stand a chance"

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: No starter, no battery, no positive terminal. 4.3GS PDMA 1994 Invader Bravo ES18

        Welcome aboard, Sounds like you got yourself a winter project, Hope you got it for a real good price!! I second starting with the engine, to see if its salvageable. Definitely put some oil in those cylinders and see if she frees up before you put a starter in. If not you will just damage the starter or worse the flywheel. In my opinion if the engine is seized I would cut my loss and get a different boat. Oh and for the starter make sure it is a marine starter not a automotive. If you do replace the engine, you will need a marine engine also, you don't want to take an engine from a car or truck and install. They don't have the torque, and cant take the hi rpm's that boat engines can.. In other words it will live a very short life..

        Good Luck

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: No starter, no battery, no positive terminal. 4.3GS PDMA 1994 Invader Bravo ES18

          Originally posted by chaiyz View Post
          Having a hard time posting a whole photobucket album. Anyone got any tips?
          Ayuh,... Welcome Aboard,.... If it's a public album, just post the link to the beginin' photo,...

          Ya gotta slow down abit,...
          post yer motor, 'n drive questions in this thread ya got goin',...

          All yer Hull, 'n fiberglass questions oughta go in a thread in the Drydock, aka; the Restoration, 'n Repair forum,...

          Good luck, looks like yer gonna be Busy til spring,...

          Comment


          • #6
            Sorry about that Bondo. I wasn't expecting to start a restoration thread but maybe after I get past the motor could you move this to the restoration forum?

            Thanks and I've already gotten alot of great information here.

            My Engine Volvo Penta 4.3GS - SX series Serial #181710
            Also serial# 4 365 A-PMDA 411 01 05816 386 80 89
            Outdrive Prod# 386 type SXS ratio 1.66 prop 14.5
            Serial # 4112004615

            Anyone know exactly what I'm dealing with here? I did see that marine 4.3MD long block is relatively common and simple to replace. Known weaknesses? I'd like to know the HP rating of this specific motor. Valve covers say vortec and I'm assuming that it's right off the line in 1994.
            Last edited by chaiyz; November 10th, 2013, 04:50 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: No starter, no battery, no positive terminal. 4.3GS PDMA 1994 Invader Bravo ES18

              Chaiyz,

              Welcome to iboats..the best place to be when you find yourself in the place you are!!!

              Okay, as others have stated, start with the motor Boatinfo - boat brochures and manuals for boats and marine engines! has the OMC manual that has all the info you're gonna need. You motor (mistyped/quoted?) is either the 4.3GLPMDA (2bbl carbed) or the 4.3GSPMDA (4bbl carbed)? I suggest you verify the model before tackling any connections/etc. While I doubt there's any wiring differences between the 2 models, I'd double check for safety/expense sake!

              As far as the structural part of your questions...yours appears to be constructed with a partial liner type cap. Meaning the bow area and the the rear engine/bench seat portion are all part of the cap, rather than part of the deck. Yours appears to have a deck that runs from just fore of consoles to just fore of bench seat. There's good and bad to that set-up...one of which you've already figured out, removing the motor is gonna suck (if necessary?)!

              Report back after you 1) Find Manual in the link I provided 2) Identify motor, 3) figure why it's not turning over (hydrolocked, frozen pistons, whatever?)

              This is a great place for the DIY'er...if you have the patience, mechanical aptitude and wallet, these guys can get you through anything that little boat throws at you!

              Good Luck!

              ~Brett



              11/2015-Current 2003 Cobalt 220: 5.7GXi Volvo Penta DP

              9/2013-1/30/2016 1996 Chris Craft Concept 18: 5.0FL Volvo Penta SX Outdrive 1.66-SOLD

              8/2007-9/2012 1982 Baja BR184: 200 Mercury Blackmax
              -SOLD

              "I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake"

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: No starter, no battery, no positive terminal. 4.3GS PDMA 1994 Invader Bravo ES18

                Is it possible the 4.3gspmda is the right number?
                The 4.3gspdma isin't in the Volvo lineup??
                3860764 I think that's the starter part#from Volvo $339.
                This site sells them.$160


                Buy American made Cars and Trucks!!!Towing insurance for a boat,a GREAT thing.
                ​Tools to make my life easier: Battery tester, die grinder, temp.gun, compression tester, DVA meter.

                In Scenic , Beautiful San Sebastian by the sea Florida

                88 Bayliner 21CC 2001 Mercury 225 HP EFI

                PLEASE,NO PERSONAL MESSAGES IF THE QUESTION CAN BE ASKED ON THE OPEN FORUM I WON'T ANSWER AS MY SYSTEM CAN'T REPLY TO YOUR EMAILS

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: No starter, no battery, no positive terminal. 4.3GS PDMA 1994 Invader Bravo ES18

                  Sorry to be posting this so late. I didn't realize my Sunday was starting so late. I was able to get the spark plugs out and all were dry, fresh antiseize on the threads. All were dry and cylinders were dry. I've removed the belts for all accys. put the throttle in neutral. Since the bolt is a 6 point 5/8th and the only 5/8' I have is 12 point I can't really put too much on it but it should be moving. I'm holding out a very tiny hope that after I pick up a set of impact sockets that I'll be able to get it free.
                  Since this isn't very hopeful I'm now looking locally for a 4.3PMDA motor. I'm a bit confused about this and the manual site bajaunderground When searching for a 4.3GS I wasn't able to find it. I could find the GL 4.3 manuals but maybe I just missed it. Anyway, I'm kinda looking for a longblock now. I'd like any suggestions for good reliable and well priced sources. Since I live so close to Jacksonville, I will probably check with west marine on Tuesday.

                  I also need to make sure that the outdrive is not seized causing this problem. Since room non-existant, I didn't unbolt outdrive. This is my first Volvo outdrive and it's much larger than I'd expect to see in this boat. Somewhat scary to be honest.

                  I need to know the first things I should be checking on the outdrive and how it is normally disengaged. While it's a bit overwhelming though, it's just an engine and outdrive and I rebuilt a constellation with my dad over the course of 5 years. I'm an engineer and also built motors back in the early 90's at a place called Wolfe's Competition Engines, in Baroda Michigan. I learned so much from Bruce Wolfe. We repowered a 53' powerplay with twin 502's that were stroked to 572. Now you can buy a 572 directly from the manufacturer but back then, it had to be built and boy was it fun.

                  Sorry for the prolonged trip down memory lane. Just trying to form a plan with so many variables.

                  On a funnier side. Today I creased the door in my Avalanche moving some branches. It a good starter to get me back into what I'm going to need to fix the hull.
                  I'll take some pictures and repost the hull.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: No starter, no battery, no positive terminal. 4.3GS PDMA 1994 Invader Bravo ES18

                    Ayuh,.... post a picture of yer drive,.... I'm Guessin' it's an SX,..??

                    Whichever it is, they're splined to the crankshaft of the motor, 'n neutral happens in the drive,...

                    Drop the oil out of it, 'n look for Metal,...

                    'n, btw,... Don't be horsin' the crankshaft bolt any harder than ya can with yer 12 point socket,...

                    You'll Strip the crankshaft threads, or snap the bolt Off,...

                    Pull the drive, then the motor if is still ain't able to turn over,...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: No starter, no battery, no positive terminal. 4.3GS PDMA 1994 Invader Bravo ES18



                      Here's a closeup of the crack.


                      Will definetly not strip out the Crankshaft bolt. That's why I wanted a 6pt. It is an SX outdrive, how do I make sure the drive is free?

                      Thanks for looking and I'm still having problems with photobucket. My pic's are in an album but if I share the link, it only shows one picture. Posting the images from the markup bracket img is the only way I'm able to post. I'll check my security but something is acting funny, I can't link my photobucket page to FB either.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: No starter, no battery, no positive terminal. 4.3GS PDMA 1994 Invader Bravo ES18

                        Originally posted by chaiyz View Post
                        Will definetly not strip out the Crankshaft bolt. That's why I wanted a 6pt. It is an SX outdrive, how do I make sure the drive is free?

                        Thanks for looking and I'm still having problems with photobucket. My pic's are in an album but if I share the link, it only shows one picture. Posting the images from the markup bracket img is the only way I'm able to post. I'll check my security but something is acting funny, I can't link my photobucket page to FB either.
                        Ayuh,... Start a thread in the Restoration forum 'bout the Hull issues,...

                        Don't dirty up yer Motor/ Drive thread with the Hull issues,...

                        ya Pull the drive Off, as I said above,...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: No starter, no battery, no positive terminal. 4.3GS PDMA 1994 Invader Bravo ES18

                          Since the starter is off.
                          Get a big screwey or pry bar.
                          Where the starter mounts.You can get to the flywheel.
                          It should be easy to bump it a little.
                          Don't over do.Changing the flywheel is a bummer.
                          The dive is easy to drop.
                          Under the rear cover.
                          Undo the shift cable.
                          Then the trim rams
                          Then the 6 bolts holding it to the transom.
                          Then it should pull off.


                          Buy American made Cars and Trucks!!!Towing insurance for a boat,a GREAT thing.
                          ​Tools to make my life easier: Battery tester, die grinder, temp.gun, compression tester, DVA meter.

                          In Scenic , Beautiful San Sebastian by the sea Florida

                          88 Bayliner 21CC 2001 Mercury 225 HP EFI

                          PLEASE,NO PERSONAL MESSAGES IF THE QUESTION CAN BE ASKED ON THE OPEN FORUM I WON'T ANSWER AS MY SYSTEM CAN'T REPLY TO YOUR EMAILS

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: No starter, no battery, no positive terminal. 4.3GS PDMA 1994 Invader Bravo ES18

                            Just wanted to update that I've tried spinning at the flywheel and it was a no-go. Having a hard time finding a 4.3PDMA GS longblock. Anyone have any suggestions near central Florida? I can find GL engines for very good prices but the GS has more HP and was original to the boat and I'd like to keep it. I'm a motivated buyer and I'd like to spend no more than $2400.00 for the engine delivered.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sign up today
                              Re: No starter, no battery, no positive terminal. 4.3GS PDMA 1994 Invader Bravo ES18

                              Originally posted by chaiyz View Post
                              Just wanted to update that I've tried spinning at the flywheel and it was a no-go. Having a hard time finding a 4.3PDMA GS longblock. Anyone have any suggestions near central Florida? I can find GL engines for very good prices but the GS has more HP and was original to the boat and I'd like to keep it. I'm a motivated buyer and I'd like to spend no more than $2400.00 for the engine delivered.
                              Ayuh,.... Have ya pulled the Drive yet,..??

                              If not, ya still don't know whether ya need a motor, or drive,...

                              The difference 'tween the GL vs; GS is the carb, 'n intake,...

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X