1996 Four Winns Volvo-Penta 4.3 GL PNCS Starter replaced, but stripped back bolt :(

[mtbdudex]

My 1996 Four Winns Volvo-Penta 4.3 GL PNCS starter went 3 weeks ago, I got a replacement from local marine place here in Brighton, Mich.

Taking it out and replacing it was tight, I had to borrow a swivel 3/8 ratchet from my car buddy with right stack up of extensions.

I did NOT use a torque wrench, rather was going to "just snug" tighten the bolts.
Well, the front one went snug fine, and the back one never went snug.
We went boating once like this 2 weeks ago, about 3.5 hrs water time and 1.5 hrs engine running/tubing/etc time.
I've rebuilt many-many engines, so I was surprised, but upon removing the back bolt the threads in the block are stripped :redface: :facepalm:
Yes, the bolt has the threads from the block on it......
The bolt is 110mm or 4 3/8" long from the bolt head washer side to end.
Just measuring with scale approx 9mm or 3/8" dia thd (I'm pretty sure its metric)

Just came back from vacation yesterday, this is my Sunday fix-it project.

So, what are my options? I list the below, appreciate feedback.
1) do nothing - not an option, the single bolt I'm sure not durable enough
2) try and re-tap the threads and screw the bolt back in, possibly a longer bolt? This seems like easiest route.
Not sure how deep the hole goes into the block, I'll put a small wood dowel in it to measure.
3) re-tap for thd coil insert? Most reliable I feel.

I don't have the taps, but could borrow them.
pict of engine

starter image

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: 1996 Four Winns Volvo-Penta 4.3 GL PNCS Starter replaced, but stripped back bolt

I just measured the depth as 4 3/4" or slightly longer.
Possible then to re-tap the thread with a conventional tap, then use a flat end tap to reach the bottom thds?
Then, use a 4 3/4" long bolt and this time carefully snug it with loctite as well, make sure it does not bottom out via washer.

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: 1996 Four Winns Volvo-Penta 4.3 GL PNCS Starter replaced, but stripped back bolt

Before I proceed with this any thoughts/advice from the experts here?

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: 1996 Four Winns Volvo-Penta 4.3 GL PNCS Starter replaced, but stripped back bolt

A guy at work gave me idea 4)
How is real world experience using this?
Loctite Form-A-Thread Stripped Thread Repair

Loctite? Form-A-Thread? Stripped Thread Repair, makes reliable thread repairs without drills, taps, tools, or inserts. Restores worn, stripped or damaged threads and eliminates future corrosion, galling, seizing, and rust. Allows up to 128 ft. lbs. of torque between -65?F to 300?F. Permanently repairs stripped threads and fasteners in five minutes (up to SAE Grade 5 English and 8.8 metric).

here is pdf tech sheet
pdf: LOCTITE? Form-A-Thread? Stripped Thread Repair Kit

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: 1996 Four Winns Volvo-Penta 4.3 GL PNCS Starter replaced, but stripped back bolt

Here is a picture of the bolt, you can see the pulled threads from the block still on the bolt.
I'm told the bottom portion of the bolt has those serrations as a "pilot guide" into the engine block for correct alignment of the starter gear to flywheel.

So what does this mean?
I can't use a thd insert (Time-sert or heli-coil) or ?

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: 1996 Four Winns Volvo-Penta 4.3 GL PNCS Starter replaced, but stripped back bolt

I measured the bolt last night, it's a 3/8-16 thd not metric!
Did web searching during lunch.

So, I can almost guarantee when my engine was re-built in 2009 they used they got a Metric block but used the original dress parts, and cross threaded it then!

I feel good at knowing root cause, still now I need to inspect the other bolt as well, as it probably is cross threaded.....
I'm thinking of going back to the shop who did the work for me.
http://www.pera.org/articles/eb60416.htm

In 1999 the 4.3L Chevrolet engine block went metric on the motor mount, transmission mount and starter bolt. Additionally the block casting number had an "M" suffix added. That makes the identification easy and clean.

 

[Senior B]

Re: 1996 Four Winns Volvo-Penta 4.3 GL PNCS Starter replaced, but stripped back bolt

I would tap the hole 1 size up from standard, use a helicoil and put the standard stock bolt back in and torque to spec. Snug to half spec and go up in 5lb increments to see how it all holds. Bet you'll be just fine. Good luck.

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: 1996 Four Winns Volvo-Penta 4.3 GL PNCS Starter replaced, but stripped back bolt

I would tap the hole 1 size up from standard, use a helicoil and put the standard stock bolt back in and torque to spec. Snug to half spec and go up in 5lb increments to see how it all holds. Bet you'll be just fine. Good luck.

I 100% agree not to try the Loctite? Form-A-Thread? Stripped Thread Repair, that's not robust solution.
Way to much torque, vibrations, etc for a durable solution.

Somehow, the block will get new threads in BOTH bolt holes, either via heli-coil or TIME-SERT?.
The question is, by whom?

See, I'm going back to the shop who I paid $k's in 2009, this picture is the smoking gun, and "negotiate" for them to do it "free".
They installed a "M" metric block with english hardware , now I'm really at my loss of time getting to the root cause of this.

I'll also make a separate thread for ALL 4.3L owners, so they are aware this.
Guess it's one of those lesser know things that until you need to know, you don't know.
Let others learn/benefit from my incident.

I can say, I do feel 100% vindicated that the stripping was NOT MY ERROR!

Now I also ask about the motor mount & transmission mount, are those "messed-up" but not reared their issue yet??

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: 1996 Four Winns Volvo-Penta 4.3 GL PNCS Starter replaced, but stripped back bolt

I found a similiar thread in the "Mercruiser I/O & Inboard Engines & Outdrives" forum, so posted my finding there for sharing, http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=468467&p=3876634#post3876634

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: 1996 Four Winns Volvo-Penta 4.3 GL PNCS Starter replaced, but stripped back bolt

I'm almost at an impasse with the engine replacement shop (a marine specific shop) that did the work for me in 2009, I won't mention their name here due to ongoing negotiations with the owner on how to "resolve this". They have a very good reputation here and other marine forums.
I'm approaching this non-confrontational, fact based discussion with him.

After digging into this more, reading forums, speaking to car guys, here is what I've found:
The bolt serrations are a "pilot guide" into the engine block for correct alignment of the starter gear to flywheel, and also give it long term durability for the torque loads the starter applies to the bolted joint system over many-many starting cycles.

If I re-tap the block, won't I defeat that?
When the block is drilled for the thd coil insert, then it will be too large for the serrations to bit into it?
Or, it will bite into the heli-coil insert? Will that damage/effect the heli-coil insert set into the block?

Guess there is no other way if I want to keep this block.
Want to truly think/discuss it before proceeding.

 

[Bondo]

Re: 1996 Four Winns Volvo-Penta 4.3 GL PNCS Starter replaced, but stripped back bolt

I'm almost at an impasse with the engine replacement shop (a marine specific shop) that did the work for me in 2009, I won't mention their name here due to ongoing negotiations with the owner on how to "resolve this". They have a very good reputation here and other marine forums.
I'm approaching this non-confrontational, fact based discussion with him.

After digging into this more, reading forums, speaking to car guys, here is what I've found:
The bolt serrations are a "pilot guide" into the engine block for correct alignment of the starter gear to flywheel, and also give it long term durability for the torque loads the starter applies to the bolted joint system over many-many starting cycles.

If I re-tap the block, won't I defeat that?
When the block is drilled for the thd coil insert, then it will be too large for the serrations to bit into it?
Or, it will bite into the heli-coil insert? Will that damage/effect the heli-coil insert set into the block?

Guess there is no other way if I want to keep this block.
Want to truly think/discuss it before proceeding.

Ayuh,.... The knurling is within the starter's housing,... The threads are in the block,.... yer confused....

Once the block is redrilled, tapped, 'n heli-coiled,...
The bolt will be in it's Original position on the block, 'n the knurling will align the starter....

 

[mtbdudex]

Re: 1996 Four Winns Volvo-Penta 4.3 GL PNCS Starter replaced, but stripped back bolt

Thanks Bond-o for the info.

I am going to the shop who did the engine replacement in 2009 tomorrow morning 9am to have him inspect first hand the situation.
He's not agreed to do anything till seeing it. Due to logistics, we could not agree on date till now.

Hopefully tomorrow at this time I'll have good news, like he will put metric heli-coil 10m x 1.5 in both starter holes, at 100% his cost parts and labor.