1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

brianhayes

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Hello everyone, I wanted to share a current situation with you and get feed back as needed.<br /><br />1) I was out on lake norman last week idling out of the marina and out of no where my engine just died. Opened the throttle and started her back up and when I let the throtle back nearing idle she died again and again. So, in an effort to make everyone happy I did a little on water troubleshooting.<br /><br />What I found was my secondary barrels on my carb was dumping tons of fuel into the intake.<br /><br />So, nowing that I had a stuck fuel bowl I decided to just get her running and just stay running wide open until we got to where we were going.<br /><br />BAD IDEA FYI...<br /><br />2) So thinking back to my days of working on cars and stuff I decided to pull the plugs to check them out and all looked well, so I thought that running in this condition was not hurting the engine as the plugs looked normal.<br /><br />Then when putting the plugs back in I broke one and wouldn't you know it , no spare.<br /><br />After our fun with our dogs on some island, I managed to get her running and we took off and we barley made it back to the marina.<br /><br />Max RPM's 2500 with constant backfiring and stalling.<br /><br />Got home, ordered a rebuild kit for the holley, found the problem (needle seat dirty) and rebuild and installed.<br /><br />Started her up and I had a rough idle.. So, I take her back to the lake to trouble shoot because I feel better on the water when trouble shotting.<br /><br />On the water I opened her up and bam!! No power, I can start up, idle, and nothing. The engine seems to start out great but around 2000 RPM's the engine just losses all power but stays running.<br /><br />I go home, and start from scratch. I pull the plugs to take a peak and there it is. A plug that is almost melted, no gap and what apears to be either extream carbon buildup or meatle melted around the diod (end of plug).<br /><br />Compression test showed that All but this cylnder was 180 psi. This one was 150 psi.<br /><br />So, thinking well 150 is still good, I put the old plugs back in as <br /><br />IMPORTANT.<br /><br />the new ones even though they had almost the same number/make/etc.. where a little longer than the original ones.<br /><br />Idle is now perfect, so I go back to the lake.<br /><br />Perfect, running actually better than originally.<br /><br />I run for about 4 minutes and there it is again. Total loss of power but mantains around 2000 rpms. I then stated pumping the troutle and the engine would stay in the 3000 rpm range.<br /><br />I stop, pull the plugs, plugs look perfectly brownish and this time I bring compression tester.<br /><br />Tested my 150 PSI cylinder and well, now it's 90 PSI.<br /><br />So to get back to the marina, I take off and just keep pumping the troutle just like you would pump an old car to get it started. I just kept doing it and the thing would stay around 3200 rpms.<br /><br />I know this feels like a carb problem, but I am thinking it's a major vacum issue. And having vortec heads I would think they would be even more reliant on vacum.<br /><br />I plan on pulling the head off today, but I think I either burned my exhaust valve when running in a flood condition or broke a ring or both.<br /><br />Talk about making all your mistakes at one time..<br /><br />Brian Hayes
 

f_inscreenname

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

When you pump the throttle you use the accelerator pump inside the carb to squirt more gas into the throat of the carb. Normally the accelerator pump gives the carb a extra squirt of gas on take off and by pumping the throttle you are pushing of extra gas into the motor from the pump only. If you are fuel starved for some reason the accelerator pump will give you a quick squirt every time you goose the throttle up but not enough so sustain the motor rpm. The question is, why did it die in the first place. Low fuel pressure, clogged fuel filter, etc. IMHO it still sound like you are fuel starved to me.<br />P.S. The accelerator pump is not going to give a regulated amount of gas (its like you trying to pour gas down the carb to keep the motor running) for the carb to run right. Not enough air mixture. At a high rpm it would destroy plugs in no time. Also dumping gas like that into your motor you may want to change your oil.
 

deputydawg

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

I agree it sounds like you are fuel starved. I had a ford Torino in high school that was doing the same thing. It would start and run perfect for a while, then suddenly no rpm's unless I continued to pump the gas. Carb rebuild helped for a few days, then back to pumping. I finally found a small speck of dirt in the carb. Motorcraft carbs are different than a holley, but when I first started the dirt would float. WHen I opened the throttle it would eventually suck the dirt down onto one of the jets, which in a motorcraft are on the bottom of the float bowl. The dirt would wedge into a jet, but as long as I pumped it the accelerator pump would keep up. Very hard to maintain a constant speed, and earned me a speeding ticket. At idle it would run a litle better because both the suction on the jet was less, and the fuel demand through the jets was lower.<br />Sounds like a lean condition somewhere, Re-check your float level, which you probably already have done. Check your fuel filters, but this may not be a cause. If you can pump the throttle and keep it running high RPM's, then you probably have enough fuel to the float bowl. Do a pressure/volume test at the fuel line to the carb. <br />Good luck with the compression issue. Good idea to pull the heads and check things out if you don't mind the labor and cost of gaskets.<br />Check your timing and advance. You may be off for some reason on timing (bad timing chain etc.) and when you work the accelerator you may be causing the spark advance to jump keeping it running. Spark not properly timed could cause a hot spot and burn a valve, but not likely.<br />Your week cylinder, is it the closest one to your carb? Flooding will usually dump fuel first into the nearest cylinder, simple law of gravity.<br />One more suggestion. I worked on a truck one time that the intake worked loose and lost a bolt. When I opened the throttle the vacuum would suck the intake tight and it would run. On level idle either high idle or low idle the vacuum would equal out and the intake would separate again sucking air again. Also pumping the throttle in this situation would dmp extra fuel equaling out with the extra air sucked into the intake. Think about how fuel is drawn in, then imagine what happens to the fuel delivery when air comes in from another scource. Problem, when this happened it sucked cooler air across the hot exhaust valve destroying the valve.<br />Just a few ideas that might help.
 

brianhayes

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

I will pull the carb apart again and see if there is anything in it.<br /><br />You also bring up a good point, I checked out the timing and the distributor cap, rotor are all croded preaty badly.<br /><br />Also, the odd thing is this is only a problem when under load. I can hold the trotle at any RPM when out of water and it will mantain.<br /><br />I would think that if I was starving for fuel or I had a burned valve, I would hear something or the engine would sputter, even without load.<br /><br />But again, I would also think that it is relativly easy for an enigine to maintain RPMS even with a very lean condition without load.<br /><br />And, yes for the 50 or so bucks for head gasket, 30 or so for intake gaskets, it worth the effort considering the cost of a new engine.<br /><br />Thanks..
 

brianhayes

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

Good idea... I pulled the carb and found a chunk of old gasket in the front bowl. Plus, I noticed that I am missing two screws that hold down the base plate.<br /><br />ARGV!!!!!
 

Bondo

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

Have you changed the Fuel Filter Yet ??????
 

brianhayes

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

The fuel filter looks like it has been changed already, but I am going to replace it again. This boat sat for a while before I got it, so it is new to me. It's a oil looking filter (big screw on type).<br /><br />I put the carb back on and tested in drivway. I have noticed a considerable difference in the amount of fule dumping into the carbs and now the secondarys are working.<br /><br />I will let everyone know the outcome this afternoon, as now I must water test.<br /><br />Thank you All.<br /><br />I will be adding a new Post to discuss the engine if I find that I need to rebuild. I would be looking to replace the 4.3 V6 with a 5.0 (350) as they cost the same to replace but parts are more common with the 350. Not to mention that I can get a circle track 350 from my dad for a good price.
 

deputydawg

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

The two screws on the base plate. <br />The bolts on the base plate should fix your problem. Clean out that peice of gasket, replace the cap and rotor and fuel filter you should be back in business.<br />post so we know if it all worked.
 

brianhayes

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

You got it... I got my cap and roter screws.. I am waiting for a water pump, belts, spark plugs, and fuel filter right now.. I should have it all back together this after noon and in the water tomorrow. Figured that I would do it all while it's apart. Pump,belts, plugs are in shaby shape.<br /><br />Thanks again for all your help and I will post the results tomorrow after water test.
 

Bondo

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

looking to replace the 4.3 V6 with a 5.0 (350) as they cost the same to replace but parts are more common with the 350.
5.0l is a 305cid........<br />350cid is a 5.7l............<br /><br />Of course, you already Knew that anyway....... :D <br /><br />You'll Also have to replace the Exhaust manifolds.......<br />And,<br />Change the Gear Ratio in your outdrive...........<br /><br />Do you have the Extra 8"s(in the forward area of the engine bay) required for the longer motor ???<br />
The fuel filter looks like it has been changed already,
BTW, with Filters, especially Fuel filters..... Looks(the Outside) means Absolutely Nothing....... ;) <br /><br />Good Luck...
 

brianhayes

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

Got it together and it is running very good in the drive way.... I'll let you know tomorrow.<br /><br />FYI.. The major difference in a 4.3 auto water pump vs. Marine is a little notch on the bottom water port (where you connect your hose). I had to grind the bolt down that holds the valve cover on right under the water pump to get it to set properly. Other than that....<br /><br />Thanks Again<br /><br />Brian Hayes
 

Bondo

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

FYI.. The major difference in a 4.3 auto water pump vs. Marine is a little notch on the bottom water port
Ayah.........<br />And,<br />The Impeller is made of a Different Metal............... ;)
 

f_inscreenname

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

If you are running in fresh water or using a heat exchanger you will be fine. If not get a marine pump. a auto pump will last about a month before the impeller melt away.
 

brianhayes

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

O.K here is the update..<br /><br />The carb was o.k as the two bolts are designed to be missing.<br /><br />Installed all parts listed above.<br /><br />Got out on the water and she ran o.k, missing around 4000 rpms.<br /><br />Noticed my bilge pump comming on, open my engine compartment and it was flooded.<br /><br />The Water pump hose came off.<br /><br />This happed three times, and I finally sanded off the paint that I used to paint the water pump and finally got the hose to stay on.<br /><br />Ran her for about 20 minutes on and off and the hesatation around 4000 rpms stoped.<br /><br />I'm guessing water was getting into the carb due to all the water being sprayed by the pumps.<br /><br />All in all, everything came out o.k.<br /><br />I even sanded and repainted my prop as it was curoded preaty badly and that made a slight difference in take off and top speed..<br /><br />Or, the major tune up either way its done right and is now running great.<br /><br />Now I need to figure out what causing the low compression in #4 as I assume this is causing the rough idle.<br /><br />Thanks for all your help guys/girls<br /><br />Brian Hayes
 

brianhayes

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

FYI.. If or when I replace/rebuild my engine I plan on using a heat exchanger. Just something about running a sealed system make me feal good inside.
 

f_inscreenname

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

“This happed three times, and I finally sanded off the paint that I used to paint the water pump and finally got the hose to stay on.” <br /> Not to start anything but if you have that much back pressure that it blows your hoses off you may have more problems then you realize.
 

brianhayes

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

Start trouble, because what you start is nothing like the trouble of breaking things.<br /><br />This is what I noticed.. 1) A gel type substance on the inside of the hose. 2) I tried to scrap it off and the same thing happended 3) I finally sanded it off and finally it held.<br /><br />Also, the hose is old, all types of metal substances in the hose (you can feal is and hear it when you press on the hose), I assume it is either metal from rust or deposites from what ever type of water the boat was in prior to me owning it.<br /><br />Either way, tell me like it is.<br /><br />Plus, the presure feels like normal presure from the water pump (volvo pump) and the engine water pump trying to pump water into the engine..<br /><br />But, I will be completly honest.. This is the very first I/O boat I have ever owned or worked on for that matter, so any and all assistance is wonderful.<br /><br />Brian Hayes<br /><br />Brian Hayes
 

brianhayes

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

Before I forget, I could pull the hose off with my hands when the gel (paint) was still on the pump and hose. No matter how tight I put the hose on.
 

brianhayes

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Re: 1996 4.3 Chevy/Volvo Engine proplems

O.K now I'm worried..<br /><br />Having low compression on #4 could be a head gasket, which could be putting presure into the water chanels, thus causing the hose to blow off.<br /><br />or a cracked block/head for that matter which could explain the metal substance (stop leak stuff)on the inside of all my hoses.<br /><br />I initially thought this stuff was just deposites from raw water but now I'm not sure.<br /><br />But shouldn't my plugs show signs of water?<br /><br />And if there was that much presure, wouldn't this prevent the other water pump from delivering water to the system and cause an overheat condition?<br /><br />Plus, the hose never felt like it was under that much presure, only when the temp droped and the thermostat closed would the hose feel like it was under presure.
 
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