No fwd or rev with Volvo Penta SX

QBhoy

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Try taking the prop off at least, just in case it’s the hub. Just to rule it’s out maybe.
 

Lou C

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Or perhaps change the gear oil to the VP specified oil.
 

highpowerdad

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Try taking the prop off at least, just in case it’s the hub. Just to rule it’s out maybe.

Yes, I will switch the prop out while it is still in the water....as for the gear oil, the shop that remanufactured it uses amsoil, it had that brand in it since I got it from them, so I don't think that is it, but I will let them look at it, I don't want to try to change the oil while on the lift, and once it is out of the water, it will be going straight to the shop...thanks for the ideas, talked to the service manager yesterday, he was stumped on this one also...
 

QBhoy

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Yes, I will switch the prop out while it is still in the water....as for the gear oil, the shop that remanufactured it uses amsoil, it had that brand in it since I got it from them, so I don't think that is it, but I will let them look at it, I don't want to try to change the oil while on the lift, and once it is out of the water, it will be going straight to the shop...thanks for the ideas, talked to the service manager yesterday, he was stumped on this one also...

What is the grade of amsoil they used. I remember years ago I used quicksilver gear oil in my cone clutch 290dp VP drive...it didn’t like it when warm. Would slip the cone.
 

highpowerdad

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What is the grade of amsoil they used. I remember years ago I used quicksilver gear oil in my cone clutch 290dp VP drive...it didn’t like it when warm. Would slip the cone.

I'm assuming amsoil marine gear lube, but I actually don't know. This is a larger shop that is vp certified, I would assume they use a compatible oil...the problem seems more mechanical, if it works, it works well, when it doesn't work, there is nothing, no noise, no movement, nothing...like it isn't even connected, but it is. hopefully I will get it out of the water this weekend...
Scott
 

muc

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This is a larger shop that is vp certified

If they are a Volvo Penta certified dealer, They would use Volvo Penta gear lube. It is part of the dealer agreement. We use Volvo parts and lubes --- so problems like this don't happen.

Volvo parts have a one year warranty, two years parts and labor if a Volvo dealer installs them.
 

highpowerdad

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Well, spent some time trying to trouble shoot this after work today…
  1. With the motor not running, in gear, fwd or reverse, I can basically stand on the prop blade and it does not rotate…in one direction, in the other direction it rotates freely - reverses which way when I change from fwd to rev, which is the way it should be. So, even if the hub was spun, it should have enough to rotate at lower rpms…but
  2. With the motor running, no forward and no reverse, no noise no nothing.
  3. Tried to see if anything was obvious back at the drive shaft inside the transom, it spins…I am assuming I am seeing the shaft from sterndrive…toward the motor is a big red disc that also spins…
NOW the bone head move I made was that when I was trying to see the drive shaft, I forgot to put the drive back down, so the drive was UP and mostly out of the water…I am not concerned with the u-joints as there was no load, but it warmed up quickly, Not overheating though, no buzzers or anything, it was probably for 5 minutes, no more than 10 at idle only…I am guessing I probably ruined the impeller…but I know how to fix that, its been 18 months anyway…it didn’t cool when I put the drive down, the gauge was probably reading 185-190 or so, I had never seen it above 175. Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Just going to get a neighbor tow me out...
 

highpowerdad

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Well, just talked to the Service Manager, gears are good, cones looked good, shift shoe looked “odd” but nothing specific…(remember the adjustment bolt on the assembly was loose). They changed out the cones and shift shoe, I will see how it performs this weekend. I sure would have liked a smoking gun, but since the shop changed everything inside that makes it “shift” and there was some damage to the shoe, hopefully they killed the problem.
 

highpowerdad

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Got the boat back in the water today, definitely shifts into fwd with more authority than it did before it stopped shifting at all. Gear lube is a clear/amber color now, so they put something different than the amsoil that was there before, along with the changing of the cones and shoe (I am assuming it is VP gear lube)...don't fully trust it yet, but took a lap around the lake and shifted in and out of fwd and rev several times in the canal and it seems to be working...time will tell.
 

highpowerdad

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So, it has happened again, ran boat around the lake, everything good, was in fwd the entire time, for the total of 15 min at idle all the wat to WOT and everything is wonderful, pull up to the dock and there is no reverse, it revs and then clunks into reverse. Then, no forward or reverse, had to paddle to the dock. They replaced all the “shifting” parts when this was happening 2 months ago, cones, shoes. Pull it out of the water, put it on the hose, and everything is fine, fwd, revs, prop spins, etc I will take it back and see what they find, but I am starting to think that I am chasing a ghost. Any chance this might be something with the shift cable or something in the shifter that causes the cable to “slip”. I say this because I know when this happens the “feel” of the shifter at the helm is very “easy” compared to when it seems to be working correctly. I didn’t push the neutral only button in any of this, but I am starting to wonder if whatever pin or detent or whatever makes that work is “slipping” every now and then, because that is what it feels like…I don’t know how that feature works so I am just spit balling here…we have cruised around the lake in an out of gear and up and down canals, but all at slow speeds, this was the first time in a while running at harder RPMs…more through on the throttle arm, again, just spit balling. 2 months ago it would go in gear even manual with the shift cable disconnected, but this time I am not sure it is the same problem or not. So you don’t have go back to the original post…2005 190 Fourwins with 5.0 GXI and SX drive.
 

alldodge

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I say this because I know when this happens the “feel” of the shifter at the helm is very “easy” compared to when it seems to be working correctly. I didn’t push the neutral only button in any of this, but I am starting to wonder if whatever pin or detent or whatever makes that work is “slipping” every now and then, because that is what it feels like

You may be on to something. When it stops shifting watch the shift plate and see if the shift cable is moving. Could be its your throttle handle
 

muc

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It is possible—— but not likely—— there is a problem with the handle/controller or cable. Mainly due to your comment that it “feels” different when the problem is occurring. You could try running the boat without the cover on the back of the drive to check.

There are a couple of more likely causes.
1. The wrong parts were used during the repair. There have been a few updates to the clutch and shoe over the years. It is easy to get mismatched parts.
2. The cups on the gears didn’t get properly deglazed during the repair. Volvo has a very detailed operation for doing this.

Did the repair shop deglaze the cups?
Do you have a serial number for the drive and a list of all the part numbers used for the repair?
 

highpowerdad

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From MUC,

"Did the repair shop deglaze the cups? "
I don't know, they said they replaced the cones and shift shoe, I will ask about the cups when I drop it off Monday

"Do you have a serial number for the drive and a list of all the part numbers used for the repair? "
The Serial number is 4202056913, pn 3868891, sx-m 1.60, I don't have a list of parts used, they replaced them all without cost, this was a reman unit that is still under warranty, I didn't get a bill or anything when I picked it up last time.

Thanks for your help.
Scott R.
 

muc

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Your drive was manufactured in 2002, so it would have had an old style cone in it when new. That cone is no longer available. So when it was replaced a new style would have been installed. When that happens, the shift shoe must be replaced with a new style and the spring and washer under the cone must be removed. Hopefully your shop is aware of these parts and service bulletins.

I'm surprised you didn't get any paperwork. Every shop I have worked for will write up a bill listing what parts were used and what labor was preformed. The only difference between retail and warranty is at the very end in the customer owes box. Warranty jobs will say $0.00

Good luck and I hope your shop gets you back on the water.
 

highpowerdad

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Muc, Thanks for the insight and data, the boat is in the shop now, and I have given them everything about how the boat was shifting and not shifting and also included your information about the old vs new cones above. This shop seems to do a LOT of outdrive rebuilds and has the volvo cert certificates on the shop wall dating back a couple decades, so I can only assume they have a pretty good idea of what they are doing and this problem is an oddity. I will see what happens next, since they have not even questioned doing the work or tried to charge me anything after the original purchase 18 months ago, I am trying not to be too difficult with them, but I do want them to have all the information I can give them to fix the problem. It is a pain to take it all the way across town though, I am getting a lot of practice with towing that I didn't really need.
 

muc

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Your welcome. And thank you for keeping us updated.
It sure sounds like the shop is trying hard to get this fixed.
If the techs are still there from decades ago, I'm guessing they will get you taken care of.
 

highpowerdad

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I picked the boat up today, they changed out the upper gear set, so forward and reverse gears, pinion gear, and cone clutch. I am pretty sure they also changed out the shift shoe again. So lots of expensive parts changed, no charge to me, so they are trying hard to make it right, too bad I can’t test it for a couple weeks. I give an update when I get it in the water.
 

muc

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The cups are part of the forward and reverse gears. They are only sold as a set with the pinion gear. Yes they are expensive. You got the “deluxe” job. Should be good to go.

Every shop makes mistakes and/or has a bad day. We are human.
It’s how often this happens and how it’s handled when it happens that is the difference between good and bad shops.
Sure looks like you have found a good shop. Please tell friends, family and coworkers.
 

highpowerdad

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Well Darn, it’s NOT fixed, put the boat in the water (reverse, forward), idled up the canal, put wife and kid in boat, idled back down the canal (reverse, forward), ran one time around the lake at 2500-3000 rpm (maybe 20 minutes), idled up the canal, went to neutral as I got close to the shore, shifted to reverse and NO reverse! Boat slid into the shoreline…all sand so no issue there, I didn’t shift it out of fwd at all while on the lake, I don’t trust it and it is good that I didn’t. Now, at the shore, I have the cover off the drive as I hadn’t put it back on yet, so as the drive supposed to be in gear but isn’t, I check the linkage arm at the drive and it looks like it is working correctly…try to turn the shifter on the drive more by hand and it doesn’t move anymore, so it all seems good. Shift back to neutral – shut it down, raise the drive, put the shifter in fwd, and the prop is in gear (only turns one way by hand), put the shifter in reverse and the prop is in the opposite gear, put the drive down, start the boat, everything works as it should shifts to fwd and reverse. So, they changed everything in the shift group inside the drive, cones, gears, shoe…and I have the exact same problem, intermittently looses both drive directions after running in gear for a while. So what could it be, I am still thinking cables or the control box, BUT when it wasn’t working, the cables seemed to be doing their job…In the morning, I will take it out again around the lake and see if it is reproducible…basically it seems, if it goes into gear, it will stay in gear and it is smooth, no clunk or delay, , until I shift it out after “warming up” then it will not go back into gear, something getting hot, cable gets flexible against the hot motor, hard right turn into the shore line pulls the cable - but the cable still moves? I’m out of ideas, and I think the shop is at a loss also…
 
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