Volvo 8.1 nightmare

[jgerardi]

I appreciate everyones efforts to help with this. I am thinking JustJason did not see the my post about the flooding and everything getting wet. With that said, since the wire colors for the injector grounds are the same on both port and starboard side, when i saw the pink and pink/white appeared to be reversed, i was thinking that i had the two sides reversed. In other words the wires to 1 and 2, 3 and 4, 5 and 6, 7 and 8 were reversed. Hard to explain in writing. As i said earlier it would be easily possible for me to have the connectors from 1 and 3 reversed, but to have both sides reversed wouldn't be possible just because of the length the wires would need to be to reach the other side of the engine. The connector for the injector harness is located on the port side.
I tried to do the recording of the data while using the boat and im not quite sure what i did wrong but it appears to have only recorded about 5 minutes of data. I am going to have to go back and watch the data-com tutorial again on how to do this.
It is pouring here today so all of this is to be continued.

 

[JustJason]

Codes will clear on their own. Sometimes it's a certain number of key cycles, sometimes the engine has to run up to temp and cool down a set amount of times. I don't remember the exact way that your ECM works. But I'm pretty sure it's over 30. Some codes will stick until cleared. Why are you concerned about this?
Can't remember if your engine is batch fire or sequential. Sometimes this information (like the number of cycles to clear a code) is in the service manual, sometimes they tell us in class. I would have to check my notes. But it really doesn't matter in this situation.

The 2 wires you are worried about don't matter, they supply power to the injectors and they both get tied together and end up connected to the same place. It's the 8 ground wires that you need to trace. Don't get hung up on the wire colors. What is important is that the ground wire for injector #1 ends up at pin #61 on the ECM, Injector #2 goes to pin #62 ect,etc...

I don't agree with JustJason . You have given a pretty good explanation for why they are there. And the fact that they have not come back after clearing them means that you are probably right to disregard them for now.

Eah…. He has an Econtrols brand ECM. The codes will self clear once the problem is corrected. Or, he can always clear the codes via Diacom (there is literally a button on the screen within Diacom that says "clear codes") and then re-run the engine to see if the codes come back or not. If they do come back, then he has a ground issue, bad ECM, or shorts in the wiring harness. So if anything, clear the codes, run the engine, duplicate the problem/symptom, the codes will either return or they won't. Based on what I read my bet is they will. You don't get those "high voltage" codes over fluke type stuff or misfiring caused by other issues (like bad fuel/water in fuel). One typically gets multiple high voltage at the sensor codes due to bad ECM grounding, bad ECM, and shorts in the wiring harness. Keep in mind he didn't get just 1 codes for 1 sensor, he got multiple similar codes for different sensors. But to each their own.

 

[jgerardi]

As i posted earlier, i reset (cleared) all of the codes that first appeared when i connected the Diacom. As a recap, all of them indicated that they were not recent. Since i had a flooding problem in my hull causing water to be slung everywhere i considered the probability that everything getting wet could be the cause of this. After about 5 or 6 hours operating the boat, one code did come back. It was 0327 Knock1 sensor open or not present. I removed the connector for both sensors, used an electrical contact cleaner on them, made sure they were bone dry and replaced the connectors. I DID NOT reset the code. I have since run the boat about 8-10 hours. I checked for codes again and the code is gone and Diacom is showing no codes at all.
I am going to do the voltage drop test again on everything and see where that leads me. I am only here for one more week and then back to NY. Before i cover the boat up im going to pull the injectors and send them to the guy that was recommended to me here and have them done. He also repairs ECMs so i might consider sending that to him as well and have him test it. I also am CONSIDERING pulling the engine and checking out that coupler. This boat has so much room in the engine room that it really is just a matter of unplugging some wires and hose clamps to raise the engine out. I have an excavator at my disposal to lift the motor and that moves with pinpoint accuracy. Then i can double check the engine is aligned properly.
This is starting to get personal. lol. I actually have not spent a ton of money other than the cost of the Diacom. I have learned a ton as well.

 

[JustJason]

I didn't realize that you cleared the codes already and that they did not return, my bad.

 

[Fun Times]

On my 2007 (8.1) I had to replace the engine... I had the entire engine rebuilt and put it back in.

One important question is did you or the previous owners ever "replace" the entire engine block with a different one? or was the original engine block reused for a rebuild?

If rebuilt was the engine Crank Shaft replaced and also the Cam Shaft?

You mentioned with a new Crank Shaft Sensor the engine seems to run "Better"... Can you debride better? What has changed for the better?

The reason I'm asking is because over the years the 8.1's used different Crank shaft sensor types that fits/works with the engine block model "Year"/ Crank Shaft year type too... If the engine Block or Crank Shaft "Year" was changed then you'd need to try and find the corresponding Crank Shaft Sensor for the year used and install it properly...In a much lesser percentage, The same may hold true for the camshaft components too.

If you're unsure then try to find all the engine block casting numbers you can find and search them out online to see if you can pinpoint a engine model year.

While the examples below are from Mercruiser, It may help give you a starting guide of where to check,
Area location "D" for the 8.1

https://www.perfprotech.com/blog/boa...marine-engines

 

[jgerardi]

I did not have this issue before the Engine rebuild. It started afterwords. I had my engine rebuilt. That is to say they completely tore down my block and remanufactured it. They did replace the crank and cam but this place that did it was a very highly rated and highly recommended engine remanufacturing facility.

The first time the engine was rebuilt, it was by the previous owner and done by a volvo penta dealer. I have the paperwork for that rebuild also which i can look at when i get home next week.

As far as running better with the new crank sensor. I think i was just experiencing a placebo effect. It doesn't seem to be any better any more.

As i mentioned earlier, this issue is not a horrible vibration by any means. its simply a matter of the engine idles a little bit rough in my opinion, and when i am maintaining a slow speed (1200 to 1800 rpm) you can feel some roughness coming from the powertrain. I don't feel the roughness as i am accelerating though this RPM range and one night i was out it seemed to be a little worse after decelerating from a higher speed, coming back in to that range and maintaining.

I am currently staying in a house on a canal right off the intracoastal. Since there are so many different speed zones here i find myself maintaining the boat running in that range quite a bit. So in other words, i feel it more often than not. I use the boat in the Hudson river at home when i am at idle until i'm out of the marina, then there are no restrictions on speed so I never notice it at home.

My main concern has been is this going to get worse or is there something internally wrong with the engine? I tested the compression, cylinder drop, vacuum all with good results. My fuel pressure seems to be slightly high when the pumps are running and the engine is off. When the engine is running the fuel pressure is right where it is supposed to be. I had a problem with the gauge and got some conflicting readings but i have a good gauge now and the pressures are good.

Since i don't seem to be getting any DTC's since everything got wet, and the tests are good, i'm pretty confident that I'm not going to do any further damage to the boat by using it. Im still determined to correct it though. Maybe something will show up on the recording once i figure out how to do it properly.

I know my posts are getting sort of long but im just trying to recap things. Its hard for everyone to go back and reread this entire saga.

Once again, thanks for everyones input.

 

[muc]

The reason I'm asking is because over the years the 8.1's used different Crank shaft sensor types that fits/works with the engine block model "Year"/ Crank Shaft year type too... If the engine Block or Crank Shaft "Year" was changed then you'd need to try and find the corresponding Crank Shaft Sensor for the year used and install it properly...In a much lesser percentage, The same may hold true for the camshaft components too.

The crank sensors had a few designs, one o-ring, two o-ring and I think a couple of different colors. But they would all work in any 8.1 block. If you look up the part number for the earliest Volvo or MerCruiser crank sensor you will find they supersede to the latest number. Fact for the people that talk about how expensive Volvo parts are ------- The Volvo crank sensor is more then 25% less $$$ then the MerCruiser when comparing MSRP or dealer net price.
The cam sensor was the one that changed and they are not interchangeable.

 

[alldodge]

The crank sensors had a few designs, one o-ring, two o-ring and I think a couple of different colors. But they would all work in any 8.1 block. If you look up the part number for the earliest Volvo or MerCruiser crank sensor you will find they supersede to the latest number. Fact for the people that talk about how expensive Volvo parts are ------- The Volvo crank sensor is more then 25% less $$$ then the MerCruiser when comparing MSRP or dealer net price.
The cam sensor was the one that changed and they are not interchangeable.

I going to save this for OSO and BUP

 

[jgerardi]

OK, I went out for a short while and did a recording. I am still trying to understand what all the data means. The EGC diagnostics book is lots and lots of reading. A few thing i have noticed and i'm not sure it is supposed to be this way... The boat always seems to idle at about 30-50 rpm slower than "commanded". One above idle speed. the TCP seems to be considerably different that the command.
I have two recordings in the diacom format that wouldnt be easy for anyone to view right here. I made a video of both of the recordings that anyone should be able view on youtube. The links are below. If someone wants to take a look and let me know what you think, that would be great.
The recordings were about 10 minutes each but i sped them up to record them. They are about 3 minutes each. Each of them has a moment or two in the beginning before i start the boat.

https://youtu.be/meavYv7LJu4

https://youtu.be/GLpIfrYes5Y

 

[muc]

OK, I went out for a short while and did a recording. I am still trying to understand what all the data means. The EGC diagnostics book is lots and lots of reading. A few thing i have noticed and i'm not sure it is supposed to be this way... The boat always seems to idle at about 30-50 rpm slower than "commanded". One above idle speed. the TCP seems to be considerably different that the command.
I have two recordings in the diacom format that wouldnt be easy for anyone to view right here. I made a video of both of the recordings that anyone should be able view on youtube. The links are below. If someone wants to take a look and let me know what you think, that would be great.
The recordings were about 10 minutes each but i sped them up to record them. They are about 3 minutes each. Each of them has a moment or two in the beginning before i start the boat.

https://youtu.be/meavYv7LJu4

https://youtu.be/GLpIfrYes5Y

Can you post the recordings?

 

[jgerardi]

Do you mean the actual .rec files? The forum will not allow it. I can probably send them via PM though

 

[muc]

Do you mean the actual .rec files? The forum will not allow it. I can probably send them via PM though

Yes, send the files. Trying to watch the YouTube gives me a headache.
One of great features of Diacom is the ability to let other people review your engine files.

 

[jgerardi]

I cant send or upload the files on here. I tried to send them in a PM and it wont allow me to either. The link below is to my dropbox where you can get the files. There are two links below. Click on the top one that says "Diacom Files"

 

[alldodge]

Its the type of file that's a problem, if need to do again, rename as .pdf first. Then once downloaded by another they can change it back to .rec

 

[jgerardi]

I tried that. If i change the extension to PDF it says the extension doesnt match the content. If i change it to a txt file, it says it is too big. Are you able to see them in DropBox?

 

[jgerardi]

It is allowing me to put them together in one zip file

 

[alldodge]

Could be iboats fixed that loop hole, and yes I can see it in drop box.

 

[jgerardi]

muc. I sent the files to you via PM

 

[muc]

OK, I went out for a short while and did a recording. I am still trying to understand what all the data means. The EGC diagnostics book is lots and lots of reading. A few thing i have noticed and i'm not sure it is supposed to be this way... The boat always seems to idle at about 30-50 rpm slower than "commanded". One above idle speed. the TCP seems to be considerably different that the command.
I have two recordings in the diacom format that wouldnt be easy for anyone to view right here. I made a video of both of the recordings that anyone should be able view on youtube. The links are below. If someone wants to take a look and let me know what you think, that would be great.
The recordings were about 10 minutes each but i sped them up to record them. They are about 3 minutes each. Each of them has a moment or two in the beginning before i start the boat.

Looked at the files.But you never got above 1/2 throttle, need to get to WOT.

One of your questions deals with TCP actual vs TCP commanded.
Below about 1/2 TCP Actual, the TCP actual and TCP commanded will not be the same.
TCP actual will be higher than TCP commanded. Above about 1/2 TCP actual, TCP actual and TCP commanded become very close. So by not doing a full scan you don't know if they are too far apart.

Hook up the scan tool, hit record, start the engine and drive the boat for about 20 minutes. Bring the boat back to the dock and stop the recording.
Make sure you spend some time at the speed the issue is happening and get up to top speed for awhile.


I don't see TPS#2 or TCP#2 in the data set. These can sometimes be important numbers. I was surprised to not see them, but I have a vague memory that they didn't show up on some models. On those models you have to use the drive by wire test.

Here are some notes from class that might explain it better.
There are 4 items that need to be looked at first to determine if the system is
functioning properly. They are TCP Actual %, TCP Commanded %, TPS Commanded % and
TPS Actual %. The first variable looked at by the ECM is TCP Actual%. “TCP Actual %” is the percentage of opening of the TCP. It is the driver’s request. It is derived from TCP1% anytime there are no active TCP1 voltage DTC’s. TCP2% is the back up for TCP1%. The ECM then looks at other parameters and determines what it thinks
the TCP Commanded % should be. This is shown as TCP Commanded %. Below
approximately 50% TCP Actual, the TCP Actual and TCP Commanded will not be the same.
TCP Actual % will lead or be higher than TCP Commanded %. Above approximately 50%
TCP Actual, TCP Actual and TCP Commanded become almost the same.
TCP Commanded % is the ECM’s request to itself for desired throttle opening. The ECM
takes this command and turns it into a throttle command which is TPS Commanded %. The
ECM then drives the 2 wire DC motor attached to the throttle blade until TPS Actual %
indicates that the throttle blade is open to the commanded position. The TPS1 % value is
“TPS Actual %” as long as there are no active TPS1 electrical DTC’s (TPS2 % is the
back up). Once the TCP is off idle, check TCP Commanded % and TPS Commanded %, if
they are not almost equal, check for DTC’s related to the ETC system.
The way to validate the system’s operation is to (with the engine running and throttle above
idle) compare TCP Commanded, TPS Commanded and TPS Actual. They should all 3 be
tracking together. Another check that can be performed is a complete actuation test of the
system using a scan tool. The “Drive by Wire Test”, with the scan tools, puts the ECM in a special mode that allows opening and closing of the throttle blade without the engine running. Once the ECM is in this mode, the technician can open the TCP and the throttle blade will open and track with TCP opening. The scan tool will also show TCP1 and TCP2 voltages and percentages, IVS voltage and state, TPS1 and TPS2 voltages and percentages as feedback on the screen.

The desired vs actual idle speed is another one that is best checked after reaching WOT and slowing back down to idle.


But before you do anything else.
Track down your voltage drop, your below 8.5 volts during cranking. This can cause all sorts of weird problems and may go along way to explaining some of the numbers I see in your scan.
Also the difference between key and battery voltage should be looked into.

 

[muc]

One other question.
Did you buy the Diacom from Rinda new?
What adapter are you using?
What system type are you selecting?