Wear Sleeve for Input Shaft Seal - SX-M

jmb23802

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Oct 13, 2014
Messages
79
Input shaft seal is leaking and the shop told me the input shaft is worn and needs to be replaced. I retrieved the drive from the shop (they quoted me a low price for the repair to get the drive into the shop and then told me it would cost 2.5X the initial quote to finish the repair even though nothing changed in the diagnosis) and I am going to do the repair myself.

I will verify that the input shaft has issues near the seal surface before making any decisions, but curious if anyone has put a wear sleeve on the input shaft of the Volvo Penta SX-M?

Hate to pay $400 for a complete new driveshaft assembly (great idea Volvo) just to fix a leaking seal, thought it might be worthwhile to explore the wear sleeve idea first. Anyone done this successfully?

The shop said they have done this on Merc's and I saw a video on youtube where someone had done this to repair an Alpha, but the shop and youtube are coming up short for the SX drive, not sure why unless the correct size wear sleeve just isn't available...
 

jmb23802

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
79
Crickets...

There is only 250 hours on the engine. I am assuming this is the original drive but cannot be sure. No corrosion on the input yoke or driveshaft so it’s hard to believe the shaft is worn already. I am hoping the shop was lying and there’s no wear groove. Hoping to get into it this weekend and investigate.

So far, it looks like I am in uncharted waters with the wear sleeve if it comes down to that.
 

harringtondav

Commander
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May 26, 2018
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2,438
Speedi-sleeve. Around $100 for a yoke shaft diameter. A cheat is to press the new yoke shaft seal a bit short from bottoming out in it's carrier to place it's lips on virgin yoke shaft surface. This works, and will give you years more use for the cost of a seal and pivot hsg. gasket.
 

muc

"Retired" Association of Marine Technicians...
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
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A cheat is to press the new yoke shaft seal a bit short from bottoming out in it's carrier to place it's lips on virgin yoke shaft surface. This works, and will give you years more use for the cost of a seal and pivot hsg. gasket.

“This works” —— On a SX-M? What do you do with the retaining ring that holds the seal in place? How many times have you done this?

To the O.P. Agree with you that the yoke seal surface should be in good shape on a low hour drive that’s never had water in the bellows. Not sure what the shop saw that made them recommend replacing the unjoint Assy. Guess you’ll find out when you disassemble it. But remember, when a shop does this kind of work we must be as close to 100% that it will last as we can be. I’ve found over the years that a customer can get over a big bill faster then they will forget a job that has to be redone.

Speede sleeves can work sometimes. But I’ve had enough troubles with them that I quit using them professionally years ago. And have never tried them on a SX-M yoke.

If you’ve never done this job before I’ll give you the same advice that I give the new mechanic’s the first few times they do this job.
1. Read the Volvo manual before you disassemble this. Check forward and reverse gear backlash before you take it apart.
2. Have 1-2 extra crush sleeves on hand. It’s easy to ruin them.
3. Check backlash again when done.
 

harringtondav

Commander
Joined
May 26, 2018
Messages
2,438
“This works” —— On a SX-M? What do you do with the retaining ring that holds the seal in place? How many times have you done this?.

You got me Muc. Works on an Alpha II and (would work on) the cobra I just finished resealing. I knew I was getting on thin ice assuming VP and OMC. I stand corrected. ...not the first time.
 

jmb23802

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
79
“This works” —— On a SX-M? What do you do with the retaining ring that holds the seal in place? How many times have you done this?

To the O.P. Agree with you that the yoke seal surface should be in good shape on a low hour drive that’s never had water in the bellows. Not sure what the shop saw that made them recommend replacing the unjoint Assy. Guess you’ll find out when you disassemble it. But remember, when a shop does this kind of work we must be as close to 100% that it will last as we can be. I’ve found over the years that a customer can get over a big bill faster then they will forget a job that has to be redone.

Speede sleeves can work sometimes. But I’ve had enough troubles with them that I quit using them professionally years ago. And have never tried them on a SX-M yoke.

If you’ve never done this job before I’ll give you the same advice that I give the new mechanic’s the first few times they do this job.
1. Read the Volvo manual before you disassemble this. Check forward and reverse gear backlash before you take it apart.
2. Have 1-2 extra crush sleeves on hand. It’s easy to ruin them.
3. Check backlash again when done.

Thanks for the reply and advice. Always great to get advice from a seasoned pro.

OK, separated the driveshaft from the bearing housing today and there is definitely quite a lip on the input shaft. So I am looking at a wear sleeve or a new driveshaft. I appreciate the feedback about wear sleeves - I, too, have heard in the past that wear sleeves can have issues. Thinking about this some more, if I had the right tools and my own shop I would probably try the sleeve, but seeing as I need help to get the pinion gear pressed out to replace the crush sleeve, I have decided I will just pony up for the new driveshaft assembly as that seems to offer the best odds for long-term results.

I did not check the gear lash (took it apart before I saw this post) but I did read the VP manual beforehand and also read up on the procedure to calculate the shims needed for the bearing housing. I will try to find the VP manual for the gear lash procedure. Should I order the tool and recalculate the shims needed or should I be ok using the existing shims since the bearings and the pinion gear are all the same?
 

muc

"Retired" Association of Marine Technicians...
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The shims can usually be reused if your careful and you shouldn't have to re shim if you get the crush sleeve right.
The reason I recommend the two backlash checks is so if it's off going back together you will know if you got the crush sleeve wrong or there is something else going on. If you get the crush wrong it will affect the backlash. But there are other things that can affect the backlash, so it's nice to have a baseline.
Buying the drive shaft assy. has no affect on what tools you will need. You still have to press it apart and back together to do the seal.
If it was my own drive and I didn't worry to much about a "comeback" I would probably try to clean the yoke with some sandpaper and just replace the seal, bolt, crush sleeve and o-rings. A lot would have to do with if the boat was on a trailer and I could keep an eye on the lube level. Your the one looking at the lip. Like I said earlier, the shop kind of has their hands tied on what they recommend.

You didn't post a serial or product number so I can't be sure but my best guess is you need Volvo manual 7743008

You do need some type of press to do this job (I use an arbor press) and a good 0-30 inch pound beam or dial torque wrench along with a dial indicator. This isn't a hard job compared to some drive work, but it isn't easy either. Most folks screw this up at least once learning --- I know I did ---- but you can usually catch the screw up.

Places I see the most mistakes.
forget to lube the bearings and get funky rolling torque readings
overshoot the rolling torque, the difference between 9 and 14 in. lbs. is about an 1/8 of a turn
pressing it back together to much or not enough
 

jmb23802

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
79
Thanks again. I don't have a press and it's not really in the budget at the moment (time is at a premium too these days) so I think I am not going to risk it with trying to recondition the input shaft seal surface or mess around with the sleeve, but I get where you're coming from. If the boat was in my shop and I had a good press on hand, I might be inclined to gamble with it, but it's a pain getting someone else to press this out/in and deal with the disassembly when the boat is offsite.

I found the manual and your part number is right. The lash procedure in the manual walks you through setting an initial shimming of the pinion gear, then measuring lash with a dial indicator, and then adjusting the lash of the upper and lower gear and making adjustments at any of those locations (including the shims between the driveshaft assembly and the case) to balance out the lash. I don't even know how you measure the lash on the pinion gear without pulling the shift shoe cover plate which appears to open up more cans of worms. I was kinda getting to the conclusion you laid out above that if the rolling torque is set correctly with the same bearings/races/pinion gear then the lash should theoretically be ok reusing the original shims (shims are in good shape). I will also look for a decent beam torque wrench.

Thanks also for sharing the common mistakes. I will keep a close eye on those. I had no idea 5 in. lbs was so little of a movement of the wrench!
 

jmb23802

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Messages
79
Places I see the most mistakes.
forget to lube the bearings and get funky rolling torque readings
overshoot the rolling torque, the difference between 9 and 14 in. lbs. is about an 1/8 of a turn
pressing it back together to much or not enough

Just wanted to close the loop on this thread.

I had a driveline shop press the bearing assembly apart, swap in the new crush sleeve and press the assembly back together leaving a little bit of end play. At home, I put some teflon grease on the double-lip input shaft seal and installed a new driveshaft. Set the rolling torque for the pinion bearing assembly to about 12-13 in. lb (torque would spike a bit higher than spec when first turning the shaft but would quickly settle down to a steady 12-13 in. lb). Put the drive back together with the original shims and it passed the pressure test with flying colors. I did not confirm the gear backlash, but the observed lash in the dry outdrive felt similar between the input shaft and the output shaft. Test drove the boat and it ran with no observed issues - no noises, whines, clunks, or vibrations were noted and the drive stayed cool after a nice little run (unscientific and not fail proof, I realize) so I am calling this one done.

Thanks for your help, muc. Your note about common mistakes made me really slow down and take my time setting the rolling torque. I landed at one point at 8 in.lb and one more nudge (could hardly tell if the wrench moved at all) put it at 12-13. Without your advice, I probably would have blown through it on the final nudge.
 
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muc

"Retired" Association of Marine Technicians...
Joined
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Messages
2,064
jmb23802 thank you for the follow up post. It's nice when somebody can learn from my mistakes. My main claim to fame in the boat business was ---- I've done it wrong just about every way a person can ---- once.
 
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