8.1Gi-E low RPM start and stalls if i decrease the throttle to quickly.

KMatusik

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Apr 22, 2019
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5
Hey guys,

I have an 05 8.1Gi-E (3869262, 4012127005). She runs pretty good, but when starting she often stalls then starts on the second start. RPM's are low (500-600). If i come out of the throttle to quickly ( to slow down for a wave) it stalls all together then starts again at low RPM. also i cant get much over 3400 rpm's out of her.

I've done a tune up and replaced the fuel pump unit. Any ideas are appreciated.

Thanks
Kevin
 

QBhoy

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Mar 10, 2016
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8,310
Hi. The tick over on these are probably about 650-700 rpm, but stalling coming out of gear isn’t right. Nor is the wot rpm. I’d be suspecting one of the below;

water in fuel
fuel starvation
diz cap and rotor
fuel pump pressure
 

KMatusik

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Apr 22, 2019
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No Cap and rotor, its MPFI with individual coil packs for each cylinder (LS style, I've change 2 of them because the laminated coil cores were very rusty and falling apart.) .

Fuel pressures are good at 10 PSI and 34 PSI.

I've changed all the fuel filters/separators and over the last 6-8 weeks I've burned 160+ gallons of new fuel threw her (80 gallon tank). I think the fuel is good.

Agreed. I'll see if i can get some codes. Also i don't have to go to neutral for a stall. just a sudden decrease in throttle.

Thanks Kevin.
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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47,547
You need Rinda to plug in

Sounds like IAC, however need to plug in to verify
 

muc

"Retired" Association of Marine Technicians...
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2,064
1st ---- thank you for posting a serial number! Makes it so much easier for somebody like me to help.

I see from the claim history. A sea water pump in 2010, boat was in salt water at that time. 26' Rinker

Full throttle operating range for your engine is 4200 – 4600 RPM. This is where you need to start with your trouble shooting. Your down about 1000 rpm's, that's roughly 1-2 cylinders worth. Of coarse your engine will die when backing off the throttle and having a low idle. The system isn't capable of compensating that much!

Your fuel pressure is at the very bottom of the 36-44 psi for 8.1 models that's recommended. Did you measure this at key on or running? You will need to measure it at full throttle. What happened when you disconnected the vacuum line to the regulator during your fuel pressure test?


While hooking up a scan tool is always a good idea. In this case I don't think it will help much. You have an MEFI ECM on this engine, so you can't do cylinder drop test and there really isn't that much info available from a MEFI.

Suggest you do a compression test and if that's good do the 2 injector tests that are in service manual #7742218. Then onto the ignition output test with a scan tool.

My guess is you have some cylinders with low compression or you have some plugged injectors and will have low compression if you keep running it like it is .
 

KMatusik

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Apr 22, 2019
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Thanks Muc.

I did a compression test when I did the tune up. Ranged from 85 psi to 120. I do think there is a weak hole or two, but they aren't dead.

But since you mentioned my serial number please answer a different question for me. My boat clearly has a Duo Prop out drive. but the ID plate ( which is hard to read) says SX-C1. do i have the wrong ID tag on my drive?

Thanks Again
Kevin
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
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47,547
Thanks Muc.

I did a compression test when I did the tune up. Ranged from 85 psi to 120. I do think there is a weak hole or two, but they aren't dead.

But since you mentioned my serial number please answer a different question for me. My boat clearly has a Duo Prop out drive. but the ID plate ( which is hard to read) says SX-C1. do i have the wrong ID tag on my drive?

Thanks Again
Kevin

any cranking compression below 150 psi is cause for concern. below 130 is rebuild range

85psi to 120 psi is bad.

get a new gauge and retest, and perform a leakdown test

however you are most likely looking at a rebuild. a head job at the vary least

when was the last time the manifolds were inspected?
 

muc

"Retired" Association of Marine Technicians...
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
2,064
Thanks Muc.

I did a compression test when I did the tune up. Ranged from 85 psi to 120. I do think there is a weak hole or two, but they aren't dead.

But since you mentioned my serial number please answer a different question for me. My boat clearly has a Duo Prop out drive. but the ID plate ( which is hard to read) says SX-C1. do i have the wrong ID tag on my drive?

Thanks Again
Kevin

You could have led with these compression numbers.I agree with Scott Danforth and you do need to determine what caused your engine to fail.

Mechanical Propulsion
Installation
VPH1 242775
Engine
Serial Number
4012127005
G8-A-AQ-26
8.1Gi-E
0 Campaign(s)

Transom Shield
Serial Number
4151063837
TS1-A-AQ-18
TSK SX-MHP
0 Campaign(s)

Drive
Serial Number
4202112360
SD1-A-AQ-16
DP-SM
0 Campaign(s)

This is how your boat was delivered. SX and DP use the same uppers and the I.D. plate is on the upper. Somebody has replaced at least the upper at one point. You might want to check what your overall gear ratio is with what you have now because this might be what ruined your engine. And yes I'm sorry to say your engine is in need of repairs.
Product NameSD1-A-AQ-16
Product DesignationDP-SM
Part Number3868912
Production Period1997-
Gear Ratio1.78000:1
Propulsor TypeDuoprop

​​​​​​​1.78 to 1 is what your package came with.
 

KMatusik

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Thanks.. I will warm it up and re take those compression test.

I've tried twice now to pull the codes with the paper clip trick. I have a MEFI4 ECU. I don't get any pulses. it wont burn an LED, it wont beep a meter on continuity and I can read 12 volts from Pins E &F to positive. doesn't matter if the paper clip is in A&B or not. I've tried putting the paper clip in with the key on, and putting it in with the key off then turning it on. No dice. Does my MEFI4 not play this trick or is there another problem.

Thanks
Kevin
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
Staff member
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Messages
47,547
Thanks.. I will warm it up and re take those compression test.

I've tried twice now to pull the codes with the paper clip trick. I have a MEFI4 ECU. I don't get any pulses. it wont burn an LED, it wont beep a meter on continuity and I can read 12 volts from Pins E &F to positive. doesn't matter if the paper clip is in A&B or not. I've tried putting the paper clip in with the key on, and putting it in with the key off then turning it on. No dice. Does my MEFI4 not play this trick or is there another problem.

Thanks
Kevin

you need Rinda
 

muc

"Retired" Association of Marine Technicians...
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
2,064
I can't help with the LED trick, Iv'e always had access to a scan tool. But I have had a few MEFI's that wouldn't connect with the normal connector and would have to use the connector for a merc outboard that has separate battery clips on it. The times I ran into that everything else worked fine in the ECM. So I didn’t look into it anymore.

But to be honest, Iv'e found over the years that codes are the smallest part of scanning a engine. Over 80% of the time all a scan tool does is quickly rule out a bunch of things that might be causing the problem.

Also, I can't help with the MPH vs RPM. Most of my time in the boat business has been spent with twin or triple engine go fast or cruisers.

Once you find out how much $$$$ it's going to cost to replace/repair your engine. You will want to know why it failed in the first place. Otherwise it will probably happen again. I don’t know if you are going to attempt this diagnosis/repair your self or have a shop do it. But here are a few of the failure causes I’ve seen.

1. Overheating, a experienced 496 mechanic will be able to see this during disassembly.
2. Part failure, (cracked valve spring, connecting rod bolt, ect.) easy to find during tear down but doesn’t fit your symptoms.
3. Abuse, lack of maintenance like oil changes, exhaust manifolds (water intrusion) —- propping/gear ratio (this one is common, the boat is propped right for normal usage but then I find out the customer is loading the boat with 15 people and dragging a tube around all day causing the engine to be severely overloaded) some of these can be harder to find without good input from the customer.
4. Fuel injectors, this one is becoming more common. Stop to think about injectors. At the age of this boat, most carb engines would have had the carb rebuild/cleaned once or twice already. Carbs are a mechanical device that can wear or plug up. Injectors are mechanical/electrical so two possible modes of failure and the passages are much smaller so easier to plug. I highly recommend they be sent out to a good rebuilder. One that mostly does marine injectors because even though they are same as auto injectors, the failures can be different. This is best done early in the diagnosis because a good shop can give you help on what cylinders might have been damaged by the injectors. Also this time of year all the good shops will be backed up. And this applies to boat repair shops also. If you call five shops and four of them are backed up two weeks but one of them get you tomorrow. That one is either lying to you or they’re just so bad nobody else trusts them. And beware of shops/people who recommend “on engine cleaning” because this is more likely to make things worse than better.
5. Worn out, not common in my area or on property powered hulls but maybe you have 1000 hours on the engine?

Hope this helps.
 
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