Have replaced transom cable before no problem - Delco EST now problem

[LAC_STS]

So I have the plastic version of the OEM OMC transom shift cable tools.

i have installed a new transom cable before when I still had the points dist. Using the tools and the real OEM manual everything went fine.

Finally decided to ditch the points dist and grabbed the Delco EST kit. Same thing replaced new cable with tools. Followed the Delco instructions to hook up to the stumble switch.

Put in the water and at ideal forward and reverse shift perfectly. BUT forward no problem at all. Reverse idle it will shift into and out of gear correctly. BUT if I give it any gas in reverse it instantly dies. I did notice that the detent part has a lot of play shifting forward. Reverse it’s sitting right on the stumble switch.

Gonna re read the manual as it’s been a while but I think o need to take a little away from the forward part and give some more room for the detent part for when it’s in reverse.

Or should I remove the out drive and start all over again ?


Much thanks for any advice


happy boating

 

[alldodge]

See if I can stir up some help jerryjerry05 kenny nunez southkogs

Does sound like its s ESA issue

 

[southkogs]

I saw this earlier, but I don't really know the Cobras and I'm not super familiar with the ESA. Never really had to work on it. Gonna' need the pro guys

I also don't know the effect of moving away from the points distributor. I always stayed with mine and took a little ribbing from the guys at the parts shop when I had to explain to the kid at the counter what "points" and dwell were

 

[LAC_STS]

Sorry yes 5.7 Cobra

The Delco EST removes the ESA. It doesn’t stumble it completely cuts power. Instead of providing a ground to the dist it puts 12 v to one of the terminals and kills the entire IGN. I shohld have listened to this local mech and got it when I first got the boat. ALL the problems I had with this boat boom went away soon as I put that Delco EST on there and a high torque starter.

I was looking at it yesterday out the water having someone spin the prop when needed as I shifted. I just painted the boat which took my “ buddy “ forever to do so it’s been a little bit since used it but I always started it every 3 weeks or so.

First I noticed that the carb fuel line intake is in the way. I need to put a 90 degree elbow on it. The top of the shifter arm “ dunno what it’s called “ but where the cable to the shifter goes, on the top part that hits the hose hard when in reverse so fixing that today.

If I have to remove the drive again I will it’s not a prob I made a stand years ago. But when I installed it I used the tools and the manual. Done it before with and without the tools. Seemed to go a lot better this last time. Just haven’t checked it in water till what I described in OP.

Basically though with the Delco EST all I have is IGN and stumble switch.

Only other thing that stuck out to me shifting it and having someone turn and lock the prop is the switch doesn’t sit in the center of the anchor assy. It sits on the reverse side. So I have a lot of play forward wise. Reverse the anchor only has to move a mm to engage it.

Blew a tire on trailer yes. Luckily have dual axle Rolls trailer so was able to make it back. Soon as trailer store opens going to replace tire and wheel and remove and adjust the engine side of the **** system.

Will report back tonight. If that doesn’t do it I’ll remove OD and start over.

Will upload Delco EST instructions later tonight. They include Merc instructions also. Describes and shows how it works and setup and has multiple wiring diagrams.

 

[LAC_STS]

I saw this earlier, but I don't really know the Cobras and I'm not super familiar with the ESA. Never really had to work on it. Gonna' need the pro guys

I also don't know the effect of moving away from the points distributor. I always stayed with mine and took a little ribbing from the guys at the parts shop when I had to explain to the kid at the counter what "points" and dwell were

I feel ya there I even had a marine store tell me nobody sells points tune up kits your gonna have to hope and pray and find one online - I just left.
Like was saying when I first got the boat and went to get a tune up kit for the points dist the guy pretty much begged me to convert it to the Delco EST. was $399 then, said na I don’t have a problem with points. But was constantly having run like crap problems. Took forever to figure out the resistor wire was bad so first had to replace that with ballast resistor. Still problems. Everyone thought it was fuel as I always had the points adjusted perfectly.

One day my buddy said man that thing cranks slow. We replaced with high torque smaller starter. Thing cranks at 400 - 500 RPMs it’s pretty awesome. But still running like ****. Replaced carb 3 times over the years. No one around here rebuilds them and using my buddies account was able to get new Edelbrock Marine carbs for $250.

Finally got a spark checker and with new tune up on dist everything is checking out but very light spark. Went and grabbed the Delco which by now was $449. Came with plug wires and everything. Replaced that and boom runs perfect. Starts first time every time. Even though I was constantly replacing and adjusting the points dist I even got an automotive multi meter that has inductive rpm cable and setting and a dwell setting, and got a good digital timing gun that showed dwell and advance.

Everything would be perfect dwell and timing perfect and still run like s**t. Could been the dist or me or who knows what but with the Delco I got nice hot perfect spark.

Guess it’s whatever works for you. Never worked out why the points dist was the problem. Was an old dist so who knows.

 

[LAC_STS]

Well I’m a have to take the drive off. And replace the remote cable also. With all three cables all free, throttle, remote to shifter, and transom it will not engage reverse.

wierd case at the water it would engage both but only get tougher and end up binding in R with throttle. Between the manual and the Hastings info I tried to adjust it engine side and just made it worse. But then all cables free that casing on the transom cable does not move when shifting into reverse.

and yea I was spinning the prop same time. Best it wohld do is forward engage correctly and lock prop both ways.

Reverse would lock the prop in the F direction but just click click click in the direction the prop would turn in R.


sooo gonna grab both new cables and take the drive off. Can’t wait to get rid of this boat. New paint new interior looks great just sick of it.

 

[Lou C]

Sorry you are having so much trouble...I did my cable adjustment 6 years ago and it still shifts with 2 fingers. Even with the old OMC control and the shift cable was on the boat when I bought it in 2002, so who knows how old it really is!
Your first post about it dying when you accelerate in reverse suggests to me your shift cut out is staying engaged after shifting to reverse. The reason why I have not changed my points distributor is this:

1) Merc used this lousy system where it totally cuts out the ignition for (supposedly) a split second but guess what, if the shift cable is not in perfect shape and adjustment, they do the same thing (stalling!)

2) when OMC came out with the Cobra they knew this and tried to engineer something better (ESA) which if the engine is tuned correctly (and carb is clean and adjusted right) the engine WILL NOT STALL when the ESA engages, but it will idle at approx. 450 rpm which is low enough for the clutch dog to release.

so my point is, why go to a more primitive system (Merc style) when OMC already designed something better in the first place. All the years I've had the Cobra I have never had stalling problems when shifting. I had to replace points (maybe 3 times in 17 years!) rebuilt the carb (same thing, 3 times) but that is it. Oh when it was approx. 26 years old I had to change the ESA module and switches, that's all!

So...go back and check the adjustment of shift cable to make sure that when you shift to reverse....that little lever is not still triggering the interrupt switch.
PS Sierra Marine makes a kit with the points, condenser rotor and cap.
If you want to run an electronic distributor I suggest you call the tech guys at CDI electronics and ask them if they make an ESA that will work with the EST distributor and if not how to make yours work....

 

[LAC_STS]

Hey Lou,

Didn’t mean to make two posts. Hadn’t posts in a while. Boat was sitting just being ran every 3 to 4 weeks while I waited for my “ buddy “ to spray it.

Dunno if you remember but yea you were the one who filled in my gaps on tuning up my points dist till I got good at it. much thanks for that.

I never knew merc tried this design. And you are correct when I had it in the water when it was shifting correctly you did have to quickly shift it out of gear or it would die as the cut off would kill it so quickly.

Basically if Sierra or CDI makes an ESA that pulses 12V instead of ground that would make my setup stumble instead of cut off. That’s what the EST does.

I got bigger problems than that. Other times I’ve installed a transom cable it only required a little adjustment and always shifted perfectly.

Like I was saying in other post with all cables removed the transom one is extremely hard and binding somewhere in R. I don’t see any way to adjust this engine side. I spent hours and hours trying sat to do it and made it worse then got it back it F perfect one finger shift but R is so hard I feel like I’m a break the shifter. pushing and pulling the cable manually while spinning prop same thing.

So easiest thing I can think to do is start over new cables replace both drive off whole deal. About time to remove it and check everything anyways. See what is making that tap tap tap sound when wheel is turned all the way. It’s right inside the pivot housing.

 

[Lou C]

I do know that feeling...you know you CAN convert the Cobra to a Volvo Penta SX by changing the pivot housing, adding an engine mounted raw water pump and a few more mods....and have something that once you get it right, probably will be trouble free. That is my future plan when I cannot get Cobra parts. For now it works so it stays.

 

[LAC_STS]

I do know that feeling...you know you CAN convert the Cobra to a Volvo Penta SX by changing the pivot housing, adding an engine mounted raw water pump and a few more mods....and have something that once you get it right, probably will be trouble free. That is my future plan when I cannot get Cobra parts. For now it works so it stays.

Just the pivot housing ? Not the gimbal too? Shoot I wohld did that years ago. I thought the whole transom assy had to be replaced.

 

[Lou C]

Ok here's what I'd do given your situation:
you don't know if the stiff shifting is a problem with the shift cable binding, or if it is in the lower unit (hope not). So you are going to wind up pulling the drive to find out where the problem lies.

1) when you have the drive off and on a stand, get a helper to turn the driveshaft clockwise while you shift it with the shift rod up and down, FWD-Neutral-REV. See if its shifts into REV with about the same resistance as into FWD. You can tell if your helper turns the driveshaft clockwise as you face it, then the propshaft should also turn clockwise as you face the rear of the drive. If it shifts with about the same amount of resistance into FWD and REV the problem is not in the drive, its either the transom shift cable, the remote cable or the remote control itself.

2) when you disconnect the transom shift cable both at the engine end and the pivot housing end...measure the drag with a fish scale...both directions full travel. Should not exceed 2.5 lbs. I was surprised how good my old cable was so I left it in place when I last adjusted it in 2013. If that is good, no need to replace the cable...I would test the bell crank in the pivot housing...does it move back and forth easily? If the pivot-to-drive gasket leaks water it can build up crud in the recess behind the bellcrank and this can restrict the movement of it back and forth. Clean that area out....pack it with OMC tripleguard grease....also....on the outside of the pivot housing...the lower drain plug...opens into that area....its to drain water if the gasket leaks....so the housing doesn't crack....make sure that drain plug still has the o ring on it and seals right. I put OMC gasket sealer on these too...

so if the cable is bad, replace as you have in the past...make sure the bell crank moves easily....

then...try working the remote control and see how freely that cable moves...I was going to change my remote control...but it still moves easily and is not loose....if that cable is stiff, replace it.....if the control is loose...with play and lost motion...same...

I'm hoping you can get by with either just changing the cable (and I'd use an OE cable for sure) or cleaning out the pocket behind the bell crank.

About the SX conversion....when Volvo advertised it....as a kit years back....they said you could do it with just changing the pivot housing for the Volvo one....not the swivel housing the pivot bolts to...but some think you should change both...in any case you do not have to change the inner and outer transom mounts, which means you don't have to pull the engine.

You also have to add an engine mounted impeller and you may have to do something with spacers inside the trim rams, something to do with how high up it tilts, if it might hit the swim platform...Its a good alternative but will add considerable cost to installing a rebuild Cobra. But then...easier shift adjustments...easier to find parts and techs who can work on it and better resale. I'd figure the price could be 1500-2000 more than a straight Cobra replacement though.

Let us know what you find out.

 

[LAC_STS]

Ok here's what I'd do given your situation:
you don't know if the stiff shifting is a problem with the shift cable binding, or if it is in the lower unit (hope not). So you are going to wind up pulling the drive to find out where the problem lies.

1) when you have the drive off and on a stand, get a helper to turn the driveshaft clockwise while you shift it with the shift rod up and down, FWD-Neutral-REV. See if its shifts into REV with about the same resistance as into FWD. You can tell if your helper turns the driveshaft clockwise as you face it, then the propshaft should also turn clockwise as you face the rear of the drive. If it shifts with about the same amount of resistance into FWD and REV the problem is not in the drive, its either the transom shift cable, the remote cable or the remote control itself.

2) when you disconnect the transom shift cable both at the engine end and the pivot housing end...measure the drag with a fish scale...both directions full travel. Should not exceed 2.5 lbs. I was surprised how good my old cable was so I left it in place when I last adjusted it in 2013. If that is good, no need to replace the cable...I would test the bell crank in the pivot housing...does it move back and forth easily? If the pivot-to-drive gasket leaks water it can build up crud in the recess behind the bellcrank and this can restrict the movement of it back and forth. Clean that area out....pack it with OMC tripleguard grease....also....on the outside of the pivot housing...the lower drain plug...opens into that area....its to drain water if the gasket leaks....so the housing doesn't crack....make sure that drain plug still has the o ring on it and seals right. I put OMC gasket sealer on these too...

so if the cable is bad, replace as you have in the past...make sure the bell crank moves easily....

then...try working the remote control and see how freely that cable moves...I was going to change my remote control...but it still moves easily and is not loose....if that cable is stiff, replace it.....if the control is loose...with play and lost motion...same...

I'm hoping you can get by with either just changing the cable (and I'd use an OE cable for sure) or cleaning out the pocket behind the bell crank.

About the SX conversion....when Volvo advertised it....as a kit years back....they said you could do it with just changing the pivot housing for the Volvo one....not the swivel housing the pivot bolts to...but some think you should change both...in any case you do not have to change the inner and outer transom mounts, which means you don't have to pull the engine.

You also have to add an engine mounted impeller and you may have to do something with spacers inside the trim rams, something to do with how high up it tilts, if it might hit the swim platform...Its a good alternative but will add considerable cost to installing a rebuild Cobra. But then...easier shift adjustments...easier to find parts and techs who can work on it and better resale. I'd figure the price could be 1500-2000 more than a straight Cobra replacement though.

Let us know what you find out.

Thanks Lou

Yea that’s where I’m at. Going to remove drive this weekend, was out there all day messing with it yesterday.

All 3 cables loose I have no R play. I don’t even know how it was shifting into R when I first put it in the water after the paint job like I was saying in my OP.

Glad I still have my out drive stand not that I’m looking forward to this.

 

[Lou C]

One thing I just don't get is why people will sacrifice a perfectly good OMC ESA system, (Yes Merc guys it was BETTER than the crude system in the Alpha) just to get rid of points. Points, if you know how to adjust, is a once every three year issue. Living with that lousy Alpha shift interrupt would annoy me every time I used the boat. And, not everyone with classic muscle cars throws away points, plenty of owners kept them and just maintain them as we did when our cars had them! Its not rocket science....

We don't throw away carbs on boats just because younger folks don't know how to rebuild Quadrajets, Webers and Holleys right? I don't see a mass rush of people with old boats putting in Holley EFI systems in old boats due to the cantankerous nature of old carbs....and points are so easy to do....compared to rebuilding a Q-Jet...or other.....

Post up your progress hope you get it right.....

 

[PITBoat]

One of the best running cars I ever had (though I do like semi-modern TBI systems) was a '69 Impala with a 4bbl that was set up by an old girlfriend's dad. It ran like an escaped ape and always started right up. He really got it right on that one (rebuilt the carb and tuned it up for me). It had a heat riser in the RH exhaust manifold, and it would come down off of fast idle really easily with just a tap of the pedal.

I'm keeping my points, and just gonna try to get good at setting them.

 

[LAC_STS]

One thing I just don't get is why people will sacrifice a perfectly good OMC ESA system, (Yes Merc guys it was BETTER than the crude system in the Alpha) just to get rid of points. Points, if you know how to adjust, is a once every three year issue. Living with that lousy Alpha shift interrupt would annoy me every time I used the boat. And, not everyone with classic muscle cars throws away points, plenty of owners kept them and just maintain them as we did when our cars had them! Its not rocket science....

We don't throw away carbs on boats just because younger folks don't know how to rebuild Quadrajets, Webers and Holleys right? I don't see a mass rush of people with old boats putting in Holley EFI systems in old boats due to the cantankerous nature of old carbs....and points are so easy to do....compared to rebuilding a Q-Jet...or other.....

Post up your progress hope you get it right.....

Update: we’ll the points dist I had a brand new engine new carb perfect compression and always had problems. I had a couple diff guys who run old muscle cars and a classic car salesman fiend have they’re mechanic look at it and by following the directions we talked about years ago everyone said it’s perfect. But I kept burning points and condensers and the engine randomly would run like crap.

First problem found was the resistor wire which I removed and replaced with the correct ballast resistor. Everyone thought it was fuel related. The actuadist was bad I’m guessing was the problem.

So I put the Delco in and at same time swapped the big huge old style GM starter with a small high torque one. Soon as I did that the thing will start first time even on year old gas and performance was like day and night.

Right now I’m just trying to get everything right and sell it and get a CC or bow rider.

Today I removed OD and pivot housing. There’s the problem. Corrosion and mud dobber things in the shift cable part of the pivot housing forget what’s it’s called.

With pivot housing removed cable moves full travel both ways very easily. Checked the OD like you described. One person turning shaft clockwise I can’t tell any diff between engaging F to N to R so thank you on that.

Next step im gonna clean the corrosion out and all the debris and crap from the pivot housing. Nothing seems to be bent or broken it’s just a complete mess.

Then I’ll put that on with a new shift cable [ why not ] and reinstall the drive and hopefully be good to go.

 

[LAC_STS]

I’ll post some pics once I get to my computer.

 

[Lou C]

before you change the cable get a fish scale and check the drag. If less than 2.5 lbs and the jacket where it goes into the pivot housing is not cracked you don't need to change it.

 

[LAC_STS]

Had to crop them a bunch. 2 MB limits a little tight.

 

[LAC_STS]

Cant get the video to upload so Ill try to explain best I can.

The shift rod in the OD, If I grab top of it it will twist clockwise and counter clockwise about 1 / 2 ".

Is this normal? Its hard to explain. Ill try to upload a youtube video of it today and post it.

Also where the crud is, how hard is it to remove and should i remove the shift lever roller / bellcrank to clean it all out and grease it up? My OEM manual states you need a special tool when reinstalling called a stop gauge P / N 984322 to set the clearance for the shift lever by limiting the depth of the bellcrank bearing.

Ive got it pretty clean now. Spent about an our with a pick set and some other tools cleaning everything out. bellcrank assy moves very easily. Just a couple crud spots I cannot get to without removing it or spraying brake cleaner in there or some chemical...

 

[Lou C]

Its a wonder it shifted at all. That pocket behind the bellcrank is full of crap and I bet your gasket between the pivot and drive, did not seal. Just clean it out with carb cleaner and compressed air, grease up that bell crank, make sure it moves real real easy. Then....
Make sure you clean the sealing surfaces of the pivot housing and drive REALLY well. Coat both with OMC gasket sealer or Merc Perfect Seal, and coat both sides of the gasket generously. Lastly....the lower drain plug....on the outside of the pivot housing....is there to drain that pocket if it gets water in...to prevent cracks....make sure that seals too...check the o ring...coat with sealer...etc.