Rotten Bat Wings; Water Injected Headers?

[PITBoat]

The old boat sort-out and surprises fun continues. Found out last night after taking the short pipes and rubber couplers off of the exhaust manifolds, that the water passages in the turn-down part were really clogged, and the rust in that area was b-a-d. That may have been part of my left side overheat posted on a week or so ago. I think this is a freshwater only boat, but those may have been on there since '88.

I suppose I'm going to have to do the center rise conversion thing (Lou C), but I hate to have to spend that much ($1000?). There really isn't a cheaper option though, is there, short of trying to find another set of stock wings in decent shape? Like, something that would get me another 5 years or so of runtime...

It would take some pretty tall headers to clear everything, and I haven't seen them available for the V6 anyway, like they are for the V8s. I don't mind a little sound, but nasty loud wouldn't be good.

 

[Lou C]

Yep that is the best option if you want to keep the boat for a while. The later style center riser exhaust fits like factory with the Barr aftermarket manifolds+elbows, and the Volvo 90* alu exhaust pipes and hoses. There is a cheaper GLM copy of that Volvo part that can save you some cash if you can order them on line or find a dealer local to you that will order them. I got the more expensive Volvo stuff being in salt water but who knows for those parts GLM might have been good enough. Barr exhaust was about $720 or so, each one of those 90* exhaust pipes was like $200, then you gotta add on the hoses. GLM does make a kit, if you are OK with their quality level, it for sure will be cheaper, but here...in the salt pond....the 2 knowledgeable boat parts places...won't even order GLM parts! They could have improved...but I went with their advice.

 

[Lou C]

PS in my boating environment, those small outlet ports, clog up every 5 years or so with rust. So my boat which came from the midwest, around 2000, had 3 sets of batwings in the time I had it, and now the later style is the 4th set. The outlets in the center riser style are much larger than those 4 small outlets....you can see how much bigger they are in the second pic...

 

[PITBoat]

How have your new ones held up? Have you needed to open them up and look yet?

I see a kit on ebay from Moore Performance that is about $800 + another $100+ shipping. Man, that's a hit I was not expecting. The break out another thousand thing is getting less and less funny.

I'm glad the needed stuff can still be had though, and in an improved form.

 

[Lou C]

They are fine. The machining on the Barr manifolds and elbows was excellent, very flat and well machined. Keep in mind when you could still get the batwings, they were like 450 a piece. Last set I bought I think was in 2004 or 2005, actually bought 2 sets thinking they would become NLA and of course they did, so that lasted me till 2016, then when I did my top end overhaul, I converted to the later center riser system. You're lucky they did not fail and hydrolock the engine! I never had that problem but I've heard it with both the Merc one piece units and the OMCs.

 

[Lou C]

PS see if you can read reviews on the Moore stuff, I heard it was GLM at one point, maybe they have improved....

 

[PITBoat]

You're lucky they did not fail and hydrolock the engine! I never had that problem but I've heard it with both the Merc one piece units and the OMCs.

That would sink the whole endeavor. I'll try to see it like that. I couldn't justify that expense for this particular boat. I keep praying I won't ruin something big while I'm still learning about all this.

I've got a single flapper fabbed but not installed, btw, out of a rubber 3" PVC pipe cap, which fits over a short section of the exhaust bellows. It will take a slightly larger clamp, but seems like it should work...

 

[Scott Danforth]

quit being ghetto with the flapper.

get the correct flapper

the pvc pipe cap stuff is not high-temp like exhaust flapper rubber is.

 

[PITBoat]

Ok, I just need to look further into what is/where to get the right thing then.

 

[PITBoat]

PS see if you can read reviews on the Moore stuff, I heard it was GLM at one point, maybe they have improved....

Yes, at the Moore website the pics show GLM. I didn't see reviews anywhere other than the couple of positives on ebay (maybe didn't look hard enough), but I e-mailed them to ask about the machining issue.

 

[Lou C]

If you wind up ordering them just make sure to check em with a straight edge and feeler gauges. Good would be .001-.002" at most. The Barrs I put in 2 years ago were less than .001"....Also check for excessive casting flash inside...

 

[Lou C]

That would sink the whole endeavor. I'll try to see it like that. I couldn't justify that expense for this particular boat. I keep praying I won't ruin something big while I'm still learning about all this.

I've got a single flapper fabbed but not installed, btw, out of a rubber 3" PVC pipe cap, which fits over a short section of the exhaust bellows. It will take a slightly larger clamp, but seems like it should work...

PS keep in mind that exhaust problems and hydrolocking are issues for almost all I/Os. The newer style Merc dry joints are much better at not letting water leak at that joint. But if you want to totally avoid this issue, you either maintain the exhaust or next boat get an outboard. That's one problem rare that's with outboards....You're in fresh water, you will replace em once and that's it, count yourself as lucky, man! My boat is as old as yours...and its on #4 exhaust system! Here if you don't do it, you ruin a perfectly good engine. All part of the cost, either you maintain I/Os or get outboards to get away from some of the work, but when they break they are much more expensive.

 

[PITBoat]

So I received my new high rise conversion kit(s) on Monday, and got one side completely installed today. I torqued the 8 bolts snug (6 manifold to head, 4 riser to manifold), but didn't have the exact spec to use.... If you see this, do you happen to remember Lou?

I'm pleased with the fit up so far. I've seen better machining, but whether or not they leak will be the real test obviously. I had to cut about a 4x4 piece of fiberglass out of the boat to fit the aluminum turned down part. I thought it was going to conflict with the PS lines (I did the right side), but it didn't too bad.

The thread cleaning thing was a must, especially since 2 holes on each side weren't even in use with the old manifolds. I ran to town and got a $25 tap and die set after I got all the studs removed (used liquid wrench and heat for those).

Thanks for all the helpful info. posted here . I'm hoping to get started on the other side tomorrow afternoon. Right about when it's getting good and hot again.

 

[Lou C]

I’d say between 25-30 ft lbs. After warm up re check the torque...

 

[PITBoat]

Ok, I'll do that. I think I've got at least that on them now. All 10, btw (6 and 4 is 10 lol). Too much sun yesterday.

 

[Lou C]

Let us know how it works out....would be a help to others who want a more reasonably priced solution....

 

[PITBoat]

Yeah, just under $890 total including shipping. But I may have gotten what I paid for.

I got the other side done and started the boat this evening. Believe it or not, there is a pinhole leak on the left manifold straight below the last bolt aft, near the drain port area. It drips about once every 5sec while running on the muffs.

I've got a message in with Dennis Moore, so I'll see what they say. I could almost live with that if it's no worse at WOT, but it makes me question how good the critical inside of it is. The surface on the manifolds has a texture like a Styrofoam cup generally; weird.

I was happy that the boat started and ran ok, and the temp looked good in the 12min or so I ran it, since the last time it ran was when the exhaust overheated at the lake some weeks ago. I changed the impeller, fuel water separator, etc. since then too.

The right side elbow is touching the PS lines, and apparently those elbows get pretty warm. I wonder if that could be a problem?

 

[PITBoat]

Dennis @ Moore Performance referred me to GLM directly for warranty. I sent them some pics, and they are going to send me another manifold, and throw in the one rubber coupler (elbow to U-pipe) that I need also. I think it's about a $25 part. I guess that'll work. Just ready to get it done and out on the water again.

I found out something I didn't know about the V6 during this too - the exhaust ports aren't evenly spaced, but the manifold fits either side because the heads aren't mirror imaged. I thought they were left and right specific.

 

[carburated]

Good to hear that GLM was responsive and helpful. I'm debating going with the GLM kit, or piecing together Barr /Volvo stuff like Lou did. The price difference is significant. But reworking due to ill fitting parts is frustrating.

 

[Lou C]

If you use the GLMs what I’d advise is after the install, run it warm it up and re torque the fasteners. Then disable the ignition. Next let it sit for a while and then remove the plugs. Crank it over and make sure no water comes out of plug holes. It’s a good idea to make sure there are no leaks from those manifold to elbow gaskets. No matter who makes them that is the Achilles heel of the wet joint design. The Merc dry joint design is superior in this regard and I looked into trying to adapt it to the OMC but the downslope angle of the Merc elbows is different from the Barr/Volvo style and I wasn’t sure the parts would match up properly (Barr/Volvo is 10*, Merc is either 5* or 15*) depending on the elbow used.
The Merc dry joint is also considerably more expensive than the wet joint for both OE Merc or aftermarket.