Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

phatmanmike

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

chad, have you ever owned an outboard? is this your first motor?
 

Sevcrist

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Ben Walker <br /><br />I already asked that question to myself and I came up with my earlier statement. Maybe if you can compare an Etec schematic to a typical EFI 4 stroke schematic you can prove me wrong.<br /><br />Also, I'm still waiting for a response to my previous question about what does it cost for maintenance on the Etec after 3 years. And what parts are involved. Anybody....? Bueller....?
 

Bwalker

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

As for amintenance. I have no idea, but I would imagine it would be much less than four stroke. After all there are no cam belts to change, valves to lash, oil tyo change, etc.<br /> As for the relative complexity of a etec vs. a four stroke. The added complexity of a four stroke would be brad dependant wu\ith the verado being the most complex. A standard Yamaha EFI would also be more complex than a E-tec by virtue of its valve train and associated hardware alone. Both have a CPU, injectors, oil pump, oil sump/tank, etc. the Yamaha alsohas a extra cylinder and associated parts.<br /> To say the E-tec is as complex is a falsehood IMO. By running the numbers on the posted weights for the F-90 and the Etec 90, the E-tec is also 13% percent lighter which is telling as far as part count goes. This is despite the fact that Yamaha has a long history of saying their fourstrokes are lighter than they really are.
 

TOHATSU GURU

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Yearly maintenance on an Etec would be about the same as any other DFI outboard.
 

Sevcrist

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Ben Walker,<br /><br />The electronics, wiring, sensors, oil delivery system and fuel delivery system on an Etec at a minimum are more complex and I'll bet you have a higher part count than a EFI 4 stroke. Yes, the 4 stroke has the valve train but the Etec has the aforementioned extras.<br /><br />Also, my question about the Etec maintenance was not how much yearly maintenance would cost but how much it would cost after 3 years and what parts are involved. Anybody....?
 

Bwalker

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

"The electronics, wiring, sensors, oil delivery system and fuel delivery system on an Etec at a minimum"<br />I can assure you the differances between a injected 4 stroke and a etec is nill.A four stroke actually has a very complex oiling sytem with galleys and lines to various bearings,etc. The number of sensors used woiuld be about the same.
 

Sevcrist

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

I disagree. Compare the schematics and then maybe you'll have a valid point. And ask yourself these questions: What modifications does it take to make a standard 2 stroke into an environmentally friendly motor, like a 4 stroke? And how would those modifications affect complexity of the 2 stroke?
 

Bwalker

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

". And ask yourself these questions: What modifications does it take to make a standard 2 stroke into an environmentally friendly motor"<br />A in head injector, a few sensors, and a cpu. Four stroke EFI uses the same things except the injector on a four strok are differant.
 

Sevcrist

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

That's a vast oversimplification of a comparison between the components of each type of motor. The CPU/electronics of an Etec are far more complicated than that of an EFI 4 stroke, plus more wiring, sensors and a more complex fuel and oil system to deal with lower emissions.<br /><br />Also, with all the Evinrude fanatics on this site I thought I would have had a response to my 3 year question. I guess the cost is just to painful to own up to.
 

walleyehed

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

It's just starting it's third year of production.....How much info do you think would be available in this case????<br /><br />And, they weren't trying to make it "as clean as a 4-stroke"....they made it cleaner.<br /><br />BillP, you may know this by now, but BRP got the 4-stroke Rotax PMA'd for CERTIFIED aircraft!!!!!, Not just the ulta-lights anymore...It will be the powerplant for the new RV-12 (Experimental) but I guess several manufacturers are looking at it for other "Certified" applications.<br />2 thumbs up to those folks!!!!
 

Sevcrist

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? "It's just starting it's third year of production.....How much info do you think would be available in this case????"<br /> <br />Is it commonplace or acceptable for any manufacturer of a boat motor, car etc. to not have a maintenance schedule when the product is first rolled out. No it's not. Every other product manufacturer can give you a maintenance schedule without the product being in production for 3 years but Evinrude can't? Besides, the Etec is just a glorified Ficht so it already has been in production longer than 3 years.<br /><br />The 3 year maintenance question is really a very simple question but for some reason it can't be answered and it's unbelievable people will buy an Etec without knowing the answer.
 

tommays

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

IMHP 3 years is to long in saltwater areas for there not to be some problems with takeing apart the lower unit and serviceing the water pump<br /><br />BUT i cant see it being any different than other brand they ALL have issues with frozen fasteners in saltwater if they go to long<br /><br />unless an electronic part or other part fails on ANY modern motor the service cost is going to be low<br /><br />until you see what wears out in real world use the only thing you have is the cost of parts that might fail <br /><br />what do you change in a modern car motor ? some filters plugs at 100000 miles <br /><br />tommays
 

BillP

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Sevcrist,<br />300 hr dealer maintenance cost for my 50hp 4 stroke would be approx $900-$1000, not including waterpump. That's one check every 100 hrs per the operators manual and prices per dealer quotes. I doubt an 50 eTec checkup at 3yrs/300hrs would be $900-$1000. <br /><br />Now figure how much your time is worth to trailer the boat down to the dealer and pick up later. If you do the work yourself on a 4 stroke then schedule which Saturday morning you don't want to use the boat so you can adjust valves and change oil. Don't forget to add time for oil disposal at the nearest auto parts store. While your at it with the valve covers off, watch your neighbor with a 2 stroke eTec pull out of the drivway and go fishing.
 

Sevcrist

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

BillP<br /><br />"I doubt an 50 eTec checkup at 3yrs/300hrs would be $900-$1000." I hope you're prepared to bend over when your 3 years are up. Doubting is a long ways from knowing.<br /><br />The more likely scenario is the ETec owner taking the motor down to the dealer again because the lower unit blew out after 2 years of no service or the EMM malfunctioned. I'd rather spend a few minutes of maintenance on my 4 stroke for piece of mind than to buy into some 3 year no service marketing ploy/pipe dream.
 

Bwalker

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

"The CPU/electronics of an Etec are far more complicated than that of an EFI 4 stroke, plus more wiring, sensors and a more complex fuel and oil system to deal with lower emissions."<br />The injection system on a E-tec isnt vodoo and its not any more complex than one used on a fourstroke. About the only differance is the injector type. The same compliment of sensors, wires, and like are needed. As for the oiling sytem. I foind it odd that you would say that a two stroke oil injection sytem is more complex than a four cycles.<br /> As for the maintenance schedule. I would change my lower unti oil every year regardless of what the OEM's say.
 

Sevcrist

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Ben Walker<br /><br />I noticed how when you say that the components that I mentioned on the 2 stroke aren't any more complicated than the 4 stroke you always leave out the electronics/EMM/CPU. Are you at least admitting that the electronics on the Etec are more complicated or are they the same too? As far as the other components are concerned, like I said earlier get a schematic and prove me wrong.
 

khc1970

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Not sure how they differ in anoutboard, but in a nowaday car, the cpu/brain which control everything onboard, if it breaks it breaks, there isn't much you can do to fix it, you change the whole cpu. <br /><br />JUst because it does more 'things/control', it doersn't mean it's gonna break more easily, think Pentium 4, it does billions more calculations than a 286, but does it break down more often?<br /><br />Anyway, the cpu is a non serviceable part of the outboard, if it goes wrong you take it to a dealer, whether it's a 4 strokes or 2 stroke.
 

Sevcrist

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

kch1970<br /><br />The computer cpu to boat motor EMM isn't comparing apples to apples. But anyway a Pentium 4 would be more unreliable than a 286 if you take into account that a PC today is much more complex than a 286. The processor may not fail but the motherboard, PC cards, hard drives etc. probably will.
 

Bwalker

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Re: Evinrude E-Tec vs Mercury OptiMax

Both engines in question have a CPU. Are we in agreement? the etec cpu may perform more functions than a the f-90's cpu. this doesnt make it more complex. It just means the cpu performs more tasks. <br />Say you have two identical desk tops. one has 10 programs on it and the other has 15. mechanicaly they are identical, so to say one is more complex(mechanicaly) isnt true.<br />A modern four stroke motor like the F-90 is more complex than a E-tec with out a doubt. the four stroke not only has all the same parts the two stroke does, but also many extra parts that are inherant with a four stroke design?<br />Why not just admit you have a ax to grind against two strokes?
 
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