Merc or Volvo V6

[Tafflad]

I went with the Volvo.
Technology wise I liked the design of Variable valve timing, and direct injection.
Plus the fresh water cooling.

 

[QBhoy]

If you are in the U.K. the issue of parts and people to service isn’t an issue, the way it is in the US.
Ive had a few VP with DP drives. There is no doubt they are better engineered than any merc and always propped perfectly. God knows how they do it....but..and it’s a big but...should the drive go wrong...they are extremely expensive to fix and akward to take to bits. You could literally buy a brand new Alpha one for the cost of fixing a DP.
Personally id prefer what is tried and tested to be a known good engine over the past 40 years nearly. The excellent 4.3 GM is undoubtedly one of or thee best Engines ever put in a boat. Period.

 

[jimmbo]

The excellent 4.3 GM is undoubtedly one of or thee best Engines ever put in a boat. Period.

The new 4.3 VP is quite a bit different to the 4.3 you know and love. As the older 4.3 was basically 3/4 of the 350, I would say the 350 SBC was the finest engine, and it does it more smoothly and without balancing shafts

 

[Tafflad]

....The excellent 4.3 GM is undoubtedly one of or thee best Engines ever put in a boat. Period.

Don’t disagree had 3 of them, the 200 hp MPI version was very good, but want more hp this time so 4.3L not an option.
There was a woefully low power output from the 4.3L compared to 4.3L car engine, and that probably helped them a lot - less stressed. It was also a heavy cast iron beast ....

 

[Lou C]

Heavy beast = ability to rebuild when a raw water cooled aluminum outboard is ready for the scrap pile. These engines can be taken apart without threads pulling out unlike aluminum. I leaned this first hand when I did my top end overhaul 2 years ago.

 

[Tafflad]

Merc & Volvo both moved to Aluminium.

 

[HT32BSX115]

There is no doubt they are better engineered than any merc

Well, since this is a Volvo vs Merc thread......People who might have been suckered into buying a boat with an XDP drive might disagree...

All the drive manufacturers have had their "problems" over the years since they first came out......(Volvos drives were designed by a Mercury engineer who worked for Kiekhaefer. One of the group (not the original designer) "jumped-ship" taking the "design" with him and offered it to Volvo )

OMC drives were also originally designed by the same engineer (NOT the guy who left and sold it to Volvo.......)

In reality, the Mercruiser I, II drives, Volvo Aquamatic, and OMC drives were originally designed by the same Charlie Strang who later left Kiekhaefer to eventually head OMC (and then AGAIN developed the "joint" OMC/Volvo SX drive before they went out of business)


It's interesting story, for when people start claiming one drive is "better" than the other!!

You can read all about it here: http://www.rbbi.com/folders/pat/isd.htm


Cheers,

Rick

 

[Tafflad]

Was aware of the history .. .but it was over 60 years ago ..... designs moved on a lot. I have owned many Mercruser I/O boats, just decided to be open on choice. After lots of questions and my researching aroind,I think Volvo have moved the engine design on significantly.
Dircet injection & varibale vcalve timing, coupled with fresh water cooling seems better choice to me ..... this time.
If I was staying with non-duo prop then decision may have been different, the major corossion issues with Bravo III - while 'maybe' now fixed, was a factor. Mercury not accepting there was an issue and for a long time refusing to support corssion warranty claims.
Anyway for me decison now made - boat on order.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Anyway for me decison now made - boat on order.

I don't think it's much of an issue nowadays and because of support available for Volvo where you live, I believe you made the right choice.

 

[QBhoy]

Don’t disagree had 3 of them, the 200 hp MPI version was very good, but want more hp this time so 4.3L not an option.
There was a woefully low power output from the 4.3L compared to 4.3L car engine, and that probably helped them a lot - less stressed. It was also a heavy cast iron beast ....

Hi
the mpi was 220hp.

 

[jimmbo]

OMC drives were also originally designed by the same engineer



Rick

No, the OMC stringer drive was designed by OMC several years before Charlie Strang joined OMC. Charlie may have some decision in the design/engineering of the Cobra Drive in the Mid 1980s

 

[HT32BSX115]

No, the OMC stringer drive was designed by OMC several years before Charlie Strang joined OMC. Charlie may have some decision in the design/engineering of the Cobra Drive in the Mid 1980s

Sort of a chicken-egg thing huh?

Even though it was somewhat "successful", the "stringer" would seem somewhat of a step backward in stern drive "tech" since it was discontinued in favor of the "hookes coupling" (universal-joint) driveshaft which was years before the stringer. If you read the article, it appears that Strang designed it in the 1950's. (Stringer was somewhat later wasn't it?........like 5-10 years later?)


Wynne literally "stole" the design and patented it about 10 years after Strang "designed" it and then presented it to Volvo as the "Aquamatic" drive.

From: http://www.rbbi.com/folders/pat/isd.htm

As Volvo-Penta began a crash program to produce the AVC drive which they called the Aquamatic, Wynne found he was unable to answer many of the technical questions being posed by Wiklund and their chief marine engineer, Neil Hanson. Wynne had to disclose that he was not the original inventor, that Charlie Strang was, and swore them all to secrecy. During the late summer of 1958 a series of clandestine meetings between them were arranged. Often they were in motels near boat races. Strang was very concerned about Kiekhaefer's spies and his volatile nature. Wiklund said he felt he spent more time that summer in an airplane than behind his desk in Gothenburg Sweden. With Strang's guidance , the drawings were finalized and Swedish engineers rushed to complete tooling in the fall and early winter of 1958.

So I would disagree, The Stringer was more of a "Johnnie-Come-Lately" And it failed. (that is , no one continued the design)

 

[jimmbo]

Wynne didn't "Steal" the design, Strang gave him his blessing to do what he wanted with it, as Strang wanted to remain at Mercury

The Stringers were introduced in 1963 or 64, at least 2 yrs before Strang went to OMC. OMC used the Stringer Mounting and Ball Gear system cause they didn't want to infringe on Wynne's Patent or pay for a licence

The Pivot point of Trim System used on the Stringers moved the Drive in a more favorable Arc than how the drive moved on the Mercury Trim

 

[kenny nunez]

Back in 1978 OMC had a display at the Chicago IMTEC of the out drive that was made before the Depression. It was a ball gear style that clamped to the transom adapter with large wing nuts. It had no lift system and the shifting was done through a Joes Clutch style transmission. I think the steering was a mechanical push rod arrangement through the transom.
The caption read, “WHO’S ON FIRST”. In reference to Volvo and Mercruiser. The system was short lived due to the Depression.

 

[jimmbo]

There were many Stern Drive systems made in the years prior to the Strang/Wynne/Alexander design. Problems in design, usually to do with the transferring of power while permitting steering, and the lack of a good marketing/distribution system did them in.
By the early 60s there were a couple of dozen Stern Drive brands, but in a couple of yrs the market was owned by Merc, OMC, and Volvo

 

[HT32BSX115]

Wynne didn't "Steal" the design, Strang gave him his blessing to do what he wanted with it, as Strang wanted to remain at Mercury

It should be obvious that if Carl Kiekhaefer had found out about it, there would have been a Yuge lawsuit.

In any patent battle, Kiekhaefer would have had ownership of it since Strang was a "employee/ major partner/etc at Kiekhaefer.

Nowadays of course, none of this matters......

 

[jimmbo]

Carl was not interested in the Stern Drive until Volvo put it on the market, He didn't appear to be suspicious of Wynne developing it soon after he departed. Nor did he seem to pay much attention to the fact that his MerCruiser used the same Double U-joint as a Constant Velocity Joint that Volvo and Wynne had Patented

 

[Lou C]

To justify buying a new 4.3 long block when I finally get a new engine for the old boat.... I looked at parts prices on the new 4.5 Mercury V6...and they are astounding! for example if in salt water you ever have to replace that gold plated cat converter exhaust...here are the retail prices...
manifold: $513
cat: 487
Elbow: 1896
total: $2896 ----this is only for one side!
and there are other things that will have to be replaced like O2 sensors, etc. If the material they used in the exhaust does not last at least 2x as long as cast iron in the old systems, then to me these things are a fresh water choice only. Imagine...almost 6 grand in parts to do an OE exhaust both sides!
Of course the aftermarket will get in the act eventually because it is Merc with their volume of sales...
other stuff is similarly overpriced....$2000 for a heat exchanger?
and the typical overpriced EFI components. Just absurd. The I/O is going to price itself out of existence vs modern outboards...once you've had one long enough to actually have to fix stuff....