water leaking into boat...

[Kwilson0824]

Hey guys, i could use some help and advice here.. I recently did a quite of bit of work to my 1987 21' Four Winns 210 Horizon with a 350 V8 Mercruiser and alpha one MR outdrive. I replaced all the bellows, lower shift cable, and the trim limit and sender swtiches. I had the lower unit resealed by a local shop. Now, I had a little trouble getting the U-joint bellow on and it took me a few tries to get everything perfect. So everytime i thought it was on, i had to pull the ujoint bellow off and the adhesive dired. I tried cleaning all the old ahdeasive off, but Darn that was nearly impossible. So i did my best by cleaning off the old dried adheasive and reapplied more bellows adheasive.

so heres the story... I finally was able to take it out on the water this past weekend for a test drive. I found it leaking a little bit of water of water on the inside towards the very bottom, under the gimbal houing plate (I guess thats what you call it?).

I pulled the boat out of the water and immediately took the outdrive off. I did not see much water or really any water in the ujoint bellow, but it appeared as if the gimbal bearing was a little wet. So im not 100% sure if water was entering the U-joint bellows or not, but I am guessing so. It was too hard to tell tho.

BUT what i did notice is that the cavity where the shift cable is, was full of water.... Also, I previosly noticed that there werent any bushings or good seals on the upper shift shaft, and i have since ordered new bushings and seals and will be installing them this weekend.

Question: Do you think the water could be coming in from the ujoint bellow from me not getting them seated properly.... OR from the upper shift shaft due to the fact that there isnt any bushings? If water would be entering from the upper shift shaft, would it make it all the way down to the ujoint bellow, past the gimbal and into the boat?

Any advice will be helpfull

The boat wasn't leaking prior to me doing all this work. I needed to change the trim limit switch since it was causing problems.

 

[Bondo]

Re: water leaking into boat...

Hey guys, i could use some help and advice here.. I recently did a quite of bit of work to my 1987 21' Four Winns 210 Horizon with a 350 V8 Mercruiser and alpha one MR outdrive. I replaced all the bellows, lower shift cable, and the trim limit and sender swtiches. I had the lower unit resealed by a local shop. Now, I had a little trouble getting the U-joint bellow on and it took me a few tries to get everything perfect. So everytime i thought it was on, i had to pull the ujoint bellow off and the adhesive dired. I tried cleaning all the old ahdeasive off, but Darn that was nearly impossible. So i did my best by cleaning off the old dried adheasive and reapplied more bellows adheasive.

so heres the story... I finally was able to take it out on the water this past weekend for a test drive. I found it leaking a little bit of water of water on the inside towards the very bottom, under the gimbal houing plate (I guess thats what you call it?).

I pulled the boat out of the water and immediately took the outdrive off. I did not see much water or really any water in the ujoint bellow, but it appeared as if the gimbal bearing was a little wet. So im not 100% sure if water was entering the U-joint bellows or not, but I am guessing so. It was too hard to tell tho.

BUT what i did notice is that the cavity where the shift cable is, was full of water.... Also, I previosly noticed that there werent any bushings or good seals on the upper shift shaft, and i have since ordered new bushings and seals and will be installing them this weekend.

Question: Do you think the water could be coming in from the ujoint bellow from me not getting them seated properly.... OR from the upper shift shaft due to the fact that there isnt any bushings? If water would be entering from the upper shift shaft, would it make it all the way down to the ujoint bellow, past the gimbal and into the boat?

Any advice will be helpfull

The boat wasn't leaking prior to me doing all this work. I needed to change the trim limit switch since it was causing problems.

Ayuh,..... Welcome Aboard,... Are ya Sure the transom ain't rotten, 'n leakin',..??

 

[Kwilson0824]

Re: water leaking into boat...

Nope, the transom is solid. Im still kinda new to this, but if you knock on the transom, it sounds like a solid piece of wood.

Also, i guess i should have been more clear about where the water was leaking from. It was dripping down the gimbal housing, towrds the bottom, under the driver shaft area. It was very very little water, but at a continuous fast pace drip. Ill see if i can post a pic of the area im talking about.

 

[Kwilson0824]

Re: water leaking into boat...

Here is the area about where the water was dripping from. The picture is a picture of the very bottom of the inside of the transom/gimbal/bell housing area. I couldn't see exactly where it was leaking due to how tight the area is, so I am only able to go by the picture i took. It is dripping down the portion I have circled.

 

[Bondo]

Re: water leaking into boat...

Ayuh,.... Water runs downhill,... Where it's comin' from is where to look,... The Highest wet point,...

If the shift cavity was full of water, it could be comin' up the cable,...

For water to come in the bellows vent, it'd have to be half full or better,...

The exhaust Y-pipe connection is just at the top of yer picture,...
It's o-ringed right there,... ole burnt up shutters have been known to wear a hole in the y-pipe too,....

 

[Kwilson0824]

Re: water leaking into boat...

Ayuh,.... Water runs downhill,... Where it's comin' from is where to look,... The Highest wet point,...

If the shift cavity was full of water, it could be comin' up the cable,...

For water to come in the bellows vent, it'd have to be half full or better,...

The exhaust Y-pipe connection is just at the top of yer picture,...
It's o-ringed right there,... ole burnt up shutters have been known to wear a hole in the y-pipe too,....

Well, the boat wasnt leaking prior to me doing the bellow replacement, so thats why i was thinking either the U-Joint bellow isnt sealed correctly or water is finding its way up through the upper shift shaft/ shift arm cavity and into the the ujoint bellows.



I guess what im wondering is, can enough water enter through the upper shift shaft bushing and through the shfit shaft cavity into the U-Joint bellow?

or.... Do you think the the u-joint bellow isnt sealed properly? I wasnt able to see how far the water was leaking down, just due to the tight space. Im just stumped right now..

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: water leaking into boat...

Lest see, what your leaving out of the install.
larger rubber ring glued in place, new outdrive gasket installed, water inlet O ring glued in place. install drive.
Shift cable area is sealed by the gasket ,so water can only exit the shift cable end inside the boat
Where your arrow is ,you have the Y pipe, and pipe O ring per Bondo plus the hyd lines exit there thru the housing also.

 

[Kwilson0824]

Re: water leaking into boat...

Lest see, what your leaving out of the install.
larger rubber ring glued in place, new outdrive gasket installed, water inlet O ring glued in place. install drive.
Shift cable area is sealed by the gasket ,so water can only exit the shift cable end inside the boat
Where your arrow is ,you have the Y pipe, and pipe O ring per Bondo plus the hyd lines exit there thru the housing also.

Yes, all gaskets and o-rings were installed just as you described. I used bellows adhesive to install the large rubber gasket, but i used quick silver perfect seal for the inlet o-ring. some grease got onto the paper outdrive gasket.. And I do believe there was water on the gimbal bearing, but it was hard to tell with all the grease. The grease seemed a little watery and i could ahve sworn I saw water driplets on the gimbal. Also saw a little water on and around that large rubber gasket that i glued in place.


So you guys seem to think that the Y pipe o-ring is going bad? how hard is it to change that? I just dont understand why that would start leaking after I completed a bellows replacement. Before i did anything, the boat never took on any water. I'd leave it in the water for over a week and the only water in the hull was from peoepl getting in and out of the boat..

 

[Kwilson0824]

Re: water leaking into boat...

I guess i should also add, the engine was replaced in 2011 and the mechanic said the transom and hull were solid... everything seem to be in good shape except for the cracked engine block at the time.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: water leaking into boat...

It would not start leaking from a bellows service. So if you say there was no water leaks prior to the repair and there were after, then the repair is still a suspect. you would have had to tear the gasket and dislodge the rubber ring out of place to get water in the bellow. There are two holes in the housing ,one at 12:00 and one at 6:00 .They usually get filled with grease so the only exit for water is thru the bearing itself. Try greasing the bearing to see if water comes out as the grease goes in.

 

[Kwilson0824]

Re: water leaking into boat...

i see.....

Would that exhaust Y pipe o ring still leak with the egnine off? I checked it when i had it in the water and it still leaked with or without the egine running. seemed to leak more when the boat was rocking from a wake and didnt leak as much when it was just sitting calmly.

The picturew with the arrow is only a referrence... I think it was dripping from high up, and almost appeared be just under the drive shaft..


I feell like i didn't do a good job on the ujoin bellow, thats why i thought it could have been a bad seal between the gimbal housing and bellow.


TRULY APPRECIATE THE HELP AND INFO!

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: water leaking into boat...

A hole in the Y pipe will leak standing still ,so will a shift boot, and the main bellow.
I would examine the bellow to make sure it is fully seated on the housing side. Impossible on the gimbal side without removing the gimbal housing. Also check the placement of the hose clamps

 

[84EdH]

Re: water leaking into boat...

One idea is to try and use your camera/phone to reach down in there and take pics of areas you cant see with your eye. another is to use a mirror and a good light to see where the water is coming from.

also, water dripping onto spinning drive shaft can splash back toward gimbal bearing.

also, I have had the small crimp band used to seal the small end of the shift cable bellows leak. many on the forum use two wire ties pulled tight at the small end of the bellows and have better seal.

how about the seal where the trim sending/limit switch go through the transom ? you've got to get those two halves of the seal just right.

hope this helps!

hope this helps

 

[Kwilson0824]

Re: water leaking into boat...

One idea is to try and use your camera/phone to reach down in there and take pics of areas you cant see with your eye. another is to use a mirror and a good light to see where the water is coming from.

also, water dripping onto spinning drive shaft can splash back toward gimbal bearing.

also, I have had the small crimp band used to seal the small end of the shift cable bellows leak. many on the forum use two wire ties pulled tight at the small end of the bellows and have better seal.

how about the seal where the trim sending/limit switch go through the transom ? you've got to get those two halves of the seal just right.

hope this helps!

hope this helps

I did try to use my iPhone to take pics in the area where i couldn't see the leak, that pic with the arrow is one of them. Wasnt very easy and they didnt come out very well.

I have thought to myself that maybe those rubber grommets didnt seat properly, but i didnt feel any water above the driveshaft insde the boat... which i guess can very well be the culprit.It was pretty hard to find the water since it was so little dripping in. But i know something isnt right and would hopefully like to figure it out and fix my mistake (which i think it is more likley my mistake).

I did however use two of the mercruiser fuel line zip ties on the shift bellow.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: water leaking into boat...

Why 2 , the bellow is glued to the housing and 1 strap around the small end

 

[Kwilson0824]

Re: water leaking into boat...

Why 2 , the bellow is glued to the housing and 1 strap around the small end

Idk....I figured 2 were better than 1. Should I take one off?

 

[Kwilson0824]

Re: water leaking into boat...

Boy I hate to admit it, but i think you guys might be right about the y-pipe o-ring..... I was able to get my phone down low enough and took a couple more pictures of the area I think the water was leaking from. I'll need to put the boat in the water again before I would be 100% certain, but its starting to look that way.

If it is the y pipe o-ring, does the egine have to be pulled? or is there any special tricks or tips to replace it with the egine still in?

 

[Bondo]

Re: water leaking into boat...

Boy I hate to admit it, but i think you guys might be right about the y-pipe o-ring..... I was able to get my phone down low enough and took a couple more pictures of the area I think the water was leaking from. I'll need to put the boat in the water again before I would be 100% certain, but its starting to look that way.

If it is the y pipe o-ring, does the egine have to be pulled? or is there any special tricks or tips to replace it with the egine still in?

Ayuh,.... Pullin' the motor, is the Only way to get at it,....

 

[Kwilson0824]

Re: water leaking into boat...

Ayuh,.... Pullin' the motor, is the Only way to get at it,....

Thanks Bondo, deffinitely appreciate the help.

I had a new remanufactured engine installed on 4/2012... the mechanic i used was fairly cheap but i've started to figure out that he tend to cut corners...

Question, do you think i should go talk to the mechanic that repalced the engine two years ago and make him replace the o-ring, since he should have done it when he put the new egine in?

Or do these y pipe o-rings go bad often and is just part of owning a boat?

 

[Bondo]

Re: water leaking into boat...

Thanks Bondo, deffinitely appreciate the help.

I had a new remanufactured engine installed on 4/2012... the mechanic i used was fairly cheap but i've started to figure out that he tend to cut corners...

Question, do you think i should go talk to the mechanic that repalced the engine two years ago and make him replace the o-ring, since he should have done it when he put the new egine in?

Or do these y pipe o-rings go bad often and is just part of owning a boat?

Ayuh,.... Unless there was a problem before, the y-pipe isn't moved or removed durin' a motor swap,...

It's rarely the actual o-ring that goes bad, but corrosion where the pieces meet,...

Unfortunately, I don't/ can't see this as the Mechanic's fault, especially 2 years later,...