Water circulating pump not turning

acdc96

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
412
I just finished putting the bellows on my alpha drive and turn the engine over to make sure their is no bad clunks and the water circulating pump did not turn (idk if it's frozen) wen I turned the engine over before I took of the drive off it moved freely. The engine is not stuck. I don't want to have a frozen engine that has a cracked block!!! In the fall wen I winterized the engine I used the proper winterization fluid that u get at west marine ( 10 gallons). Ran that through the engine till I saw it come out of the exhaust. The I fogged the engine and took the drain plugs out.

Is it time to rebuild the pump or buy a new one???

Anything I should worry about with the block? It's going to snow on Friday so can't do to much to it.

The boat is tarped. Note: I don't start the engine wen I say turn it over and the fuel valve to the pump is shut.
 

thumpar

Admiral
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Jun 21, 2007
Messages
6,138
Re: Water circulating pump not turning

Did you drain the engine before running the pink stuff though it? If you didn't and the engine never warmed up then the thermostat didn't open and you just ran it through the exhaust ONLY. That is why people say air don't freeze.
 

Fun Times

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Re: Water circulating pump not turning

Also what engine model & year do you have?
 

Grub54891

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Jun 17, 2012
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Re: Water circulating pump not turning

Get some heat to the block asap,till we know how ya winterized it,it could have froze. Hope it can be saved. Also pull all drainplugs in the block,and manifolds,waterpump hose too.
Grub
 

Bt Doctur

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Aug 29, 2004
Messages
19,111
Re: Water circulating pump not turning

Without draining everything first before muffing the A/F in you most likely cracked the block and/or manifolds allowing water to enter the block. Remove all the drain plugs and report what came out.
 

acdc96

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
412
Re: Water circulating pump not turning

I drained the manifolds before running the antifreeze through it. Besides I had the block plenty warm before winterizing it. Ran it for 20min with the muffs on. In September. It's kinda hard to warm up the block... I don't have a place to warm it up. I could just start the engine??? I've checked the oil and it was same color and same level when I last checked it. I'm going to check the compression in the cylinders tomorrow.

Wen I take off the pump off tomorrow is their something i can pour in the block to replace the fluid? Antifreeze?

1987 Mercruiser 5.7L V8 260HP thunderbolt ignition

I use it in saltwater. Maybe the pump is just corroded.
 

thumpar

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Re: Water circulating pump not turning

You are supposed the drain the whole thing not just he manifolds.
 

Silly Seville

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Dec 5, 2009
Messages
798
Re: Water circulating pump not turning

Besides I had the block plenty warm before winterizing it. Ran it for 20min with the muffs on.

OP...this is for you and others who need to understand something. The factory thermostat needs to have 145 degree liquid hitting it to open up and circulate fluid through certain parts of the engine and exhaust system. I don't care if you ran the engine on muffs for 20 minutes or 20 days...as soon as you introduced any liquid colder than 142 degrees into the thermostat housing, you just effectively shut it, and now your antifreeze is not circulating where it needs to be.


When I take the pump off tomorrow is their something i can pour in the block to replace the fluid?

Just drain the engine and manifolds, pull your power steering cooler hose and your recirculating pump lower hose, and stop with the antifreeze business.

AIR DOES NOT FREEZE!
 

tpenfield

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Jul 18, 2011
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17,689
Re: Water circulating pump not turning

The short answer is yes, the water/anti-freeze mix that is in the recirculating pump is probably frozen. As the others have indicated, draining the engine in addition to the manifolds is well advised, because the antifreeze does not do a 1-for-1 swap with the water that resides in the engine. It sort of dilutes it slowly. Much of the antifreeze goes directly out to the exhaust manifolds during the 'winterization process', depending on what engine you have.

You could try to remove the lower hose on the recirculating pump to get a look. I'm thinking it is more likely frozen than corroded, with the low temps we have had in New England over the past couple of days.

It is actually going to start snowing today (Thursday and into Friday), but you may as well see what you can do.
 

Bondo

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70,506
Re: Water circulating pump not turning

The short answer is yes, the water/anti-freeze mix that is in the recirculating pump is probably frozen. As the others have indicated, draining the engine in addition to the manifolds is well advised, because the antifreeze does not do a 1-for-1 swap with the water that resides in the engine. It sort of dilutes it slowly. Much of the antifreeze goes directly out to the exhaust manifolds during the 'winterization process', depending on what engine you have.

You could try to remove the lower hose on the recirculating pump to get a look. I'm thinking it is more likely frozen than corroded, with the low temps we have had in New England over the past couple of days.

It is actually going to start snowing today (Thursday and into Friday), but you may as well see what you can do.

Ayuh,.... I Agree, no doubt the circulatin' pump is full of ice, which is Why I always mention pullin' the Big hose off it when winterizin',...

Build a tarp tent over yer hull/ motor, 'n rent a salamander heater to thaw it out,...
Or,...
Wait for it to thaw out,....

The Damage, if any, is done now,...

The tin plate backin' on the circulatin' water pump saves it from crackin', but the seal takes 'ell,...
The Block,..??..??.. Who knows,.... cross yer fingers, 'n Pray....
'n learn how to D R A I N yer driveline,....
 

acdc96

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 23, 2013
Messages
412
Re: Water circulating pump not turning

Good News!!!!
I got the pump to turn!!!'
I put a small electric heater overnight keeping an eye on the boat. The temp in my boat at 5:00am was in the low 50's. I put a little leftover west marine pink winterization fluid in the thermostat and removed all the drain plugs. On the next warm day I'm gonna inspect the motor and fire it up and winterize it properly.

I couldn't remove the lower hose it's in a tight spot and a little stiff.

Thanks for the posts.
 

tpenfield

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Messages
17,689
Re: Water circulating pump not turning

Good News!!!!
I got the pump to turn!!!'
I put a small electric heater overnight keeping an eye on the boat. The temp in my boat at 5:00am was in the low 50's. I put a little leftover west marine pink winterization fluid in the thermostat and removed all the drain plugs. On the next warm day I'm gonna inspect the motor and fire it up and winterize it properly.

I couldn't remove the lower hose it's in a tight spot and a little stiff.

Thanks for the posts.

Wondering if you got any fluid to drain from the engine block, once you pulled the plugs? In my research, the pink RV/marine anti-freeze (-50 F) starts to get 'slushy' once the temp gets into the single digits (F), but does not freeze solid until about -50F. Once it gets diluted a bit inside the engine, you probably would have a hard freeze much sooner. For kicks, you can put a small container of the 'pink' stuff in the freezer overnight and see what it looks like at low temps.

Hopefully your engine will be OK.
 

Bondo

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Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
70,506
Re: Water circulating pump not turning

Good News!!!!
I got the pump to turn!!!'
I put a small electric heater overnight keeping an eye on the boat. The temp in my boat at 5:00am was in the low 50's. I put a little leftover west marine pink winterization fluid in the thermostat and removed all the drain plugs. On the next warm day I'm gonna inspect the motor and fire it up and winterize it properly.

I couldn't remove the lower hose it's in a tight spot and a little stiff.

Thanks for the posts.

Ayuh,.... What, if anything came outa the drains,..??

Get yerself a bent shaft Hose Pick,... It makes pullin' 'bout any hose,... Easy,....
You can already see the results of doin' it wrong, because it's to hard to do,...
Plan ahead, 'n make yer life, Easier,...
 

Bayou Dave

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
1,780
Re: Water circulating pump not turning

Good News!!!!
I got the pump to turn!!!'
I put a small electric heater overnight keeping an eye on the boat. The temp in my boat at 5:00am was in the low 50's. I put a little leftover west marine pink winterization fluid in the thermostat and removed all the drain plugs. On the next warm day I'm gonna inspect the motor and fire it up and winterize it properly.

I couldn't remove the lower hose it's in a tight spot and a little stiff.
Thanks for the posts.


I would cut the hose and let it drain. Then put a new hose on when the weather is better. The cost of a hose is a lot cheaper than any remaining water freezing and causing more problems.
 

littlebookworm

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
574
Re: Water circulating pump not turning

Keep the heater going in the engine bay. Cut the big hose to drain it. Open or remove all the drain plugs on the engine block. Using a small screwdriver or piece of coat hanger wire, clear out the drains. After whatever's inside drains, leave evrything open and turn off the heater. If you're very lucky, the block and/or heads didn't crack and you'll be OK in the spring. If not, it's already done and there's nothing you can do to change the situation. Winterizing requires removing the thermostat so that anti-freeze can circulate. You'll know better for next year. Good luck. Hy
 

Walt T

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Mar 16, 2002
Messages
1,369
Re: Water circulating pump not turning

I always shake my head at these antifreeze proponents. Nothing wrong with using it.... If done properly. Draining however leaves no doubt the engine is winterized. If the person is not sure how to drain it then they should not be trying to use the antifreeze method until they know what they are doing. Key phrase here is "Know what they are doing"

If you want to learn to winterize your boat, I am all for it. Whatever method you choose to use will work as long as you know exactly what you need to do. We can only do so much here. I recommend that you ask a technician to show you what to do and pay him/her for their time. That way you know what YOUR boat needs and aren't trying to figure out what to do from generalized you tube videos or some weird guys on boating forums.
Engines are expensive, a couple of hours of a mechanics time is not. I have gone to friends homes and showed them how to winterize. I also do that with trailer bearing maintenance. Easy stuff even a surgeon can do. If you are not sure you should be doing this then don't do it. Bearings and winterization are very easy but you do NOT want to do them wrong. If you aren't sure after you have finished winterizing, you didn't do it right.
 

AgnotGt

Seaman
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
70
Re: Water circulating pump not turning

My first winterizing:

I brought the engine up to temp. Drained the block and manifold. Pulled the thermo housing hose and filled with antifreeze till it came out the block drain. Put the muffs on with a special hose to a reservoir of antifreeze and fired the engine up and fogged till it died with marvel mystery oil.

Maybe a little overkill but I wanted to be sure.... Winter average in the 30's but this year 25* for 5 days; whew!

.
 

Silly Seville

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Dec 5, 2009
Messages
798
Re: Water circulating pump not turning

I'm going to tell a true story here in the hopes it will serve as a warning to new boat owners, and prevent more of these threads.

I was working with a young fellow (19-20 year old) several weeks ago on a farm, and he asked me about my Sea Ray hat. Well that lead to a long conversation about boats, and I learned that he had just bought a bowrider during the summer of 2013. Him and his buddies had cruised the local lake a few times and put in away for winter. He asked me if I knew anything about his engine (4.3 LX 205 hp) and how he could make it go faster for next season. During our discussion, he mentioned winterizing it. He wanted to know if he should leave the spark plugs out after fogging the engine. I said, "Umm, when did you winterize it?" His response, "I haven't done it yet...have been too busy." So I look at him in utter astonishment and say, "You do have it parked in a heated garage, right?" to which he says "No, why?" :eek:

I think you can see where this is going. This was in mid-December. We had already had several days with temps in the teens, and this poor kid had no concept of the idea that an engine filled with water was doomed for the scrap yard. When I asked him repeatedly if he had drained the engine and manifolds before parking the boat, he literally gave me the deer in the headlights look. I just about choked when I told him that he was going to be buying another engine for his boat in the spring. This was a very nice kid, very hard worker on his dads farm, and attending a community college. I'm not sure, it may have been the cold wind in his face, but I believe he was actually getting tears in his eyes when I said in the most gentle tone I could muster..."What do you think happens to an engine when water is trapped in a space it cannot escape from, and freezes?" I told him that short of a miracle, his engine was already destroyed. After telling him all about how he should have pulled the drain plugs and hoses, he still couldn't fathom that his boat was not going to be running in the spring without spending thousands of dollars that he simply didn't have.

Let this be a lesson to those of you who just bought a boat, or who are considering the purchase of one in the spring. THIS STUFF HAPPENS! As the above posters mentioned...know what you're doing BEFORE you do it! Ask questions. A little bit of time researching proper procedures is certainly cheaper than long block replacements.

I felt so bad for this kid, that I offered to help in out in the spring, by offering my donated labor and equipment to pull his busted engine, swap over the marine parts onto another one, and reinstall and align. I suspect he cannot afford to re-power, and that boat will be at the dump or a Goodwill donation site very soon. What a shame.
 

Grub54891

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Re: Water circulating pump not turning

To bad for the kid:-( just reminded me of one sitting right now. A local guy let his neighbor use his boat only one day this summer. Now he said that it was winterised last year,and only used once so it should be fine.... We have had -30 temps allready,it's scrap at this piont. To bad for all that don't know. I suppose they think of it like a car. Park it and run it.
Grub
 

thumpar

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Jun 21, 2007
Messages
6,138
Re: Water circulating pump not turning

I think that a lot of people think that the water drains out when you pull it out. When I got my 120 I was surprised how much water was left in the block when I drained it the first year. The only real reason I knew to do a winterization was because growing up my grandpa had a Volvo I/O.
 
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