new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

[montejw360]

just received my new perma-lubed gimbal bearing for my mc-1/pre-alpha 1979 outdrive that my 470 bolts up to. the engine was out of the boat, but has been re-installed. i already had a new gimbal bearing installed, aligned the engine up to it, but had to make a big adjustment to the engine to get it aligned, like lowering the front of the engine over 1/4".

so i decided to start over. i pulled the g/bearing with a slide hammer, tossed it. i didn't have a proper install tool when i installed that bearing, i used a brass punch going around the aluminum carrier tapping it in. anyway, i had to make the big adjustment on the engine to get it aligned. wanted to start over, pulled the g/bearing, tossed it. have a new bearing.

i'm looking at the bearing and can see that the g/bearing is in the aluminum carrier crooked. if i put the bearing on a flat surface (sitting on face of bearing inner race) and spin it with my fingers the carrier looks like a top that's slowing down and starting to wobble.

i bought the sierra bearing install and puller kit ($$$) hoping it had something that would help get the bearing aligned up with the carrier, but it won't help.

i also have seen in the mercruiser manual a procedure showing after installing the bearing in the gimbal housing inserting the alignment tool and tapping it side to side, and up and down to help align the bearing with the engine. but in my case the engine is so far away from where it used to be aligned i'm not sure that will help.

it sort of seems like a chicken and egg problem, which came first? put get the bearing perfectly aligned in the carrier, install it, install and align the engine to the bearing, or install the engine (aligned to what???) and align the bearing to it. it seems like you would want to get the bearing and carrier aligned and align the engine to that.

so, at this time i'm going to try and get the bearing lined up in the carrier before installing it. don't think it's going to be really easy, have to go around the bearing outer race and tap it down at the high point going around and around until it's lined up.

to me if i get a straight edge sitting on the face of the inner race to be parallel with the face of the carrier in all directions it's lined up. that's what i'm shooting for.

unless someone has a better idea....

 

[achris]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

It's a Gimbal bearing. It's designed to move in the carrier. When you install it, use your alignment tool to centre it up...
You said you dropped the engine 1/4". Wind it back up that amount. That's your starting point...

Chris....

 

[stonyloam]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

Uhhhh.. It is a GIMBAL bearing and the inner bearing is supposed to turn in the outer housing. That allows the bearing to align itself with the engine coupler regardless of the angle of the transom with respect to the engine. The gimbal housing and the transom plate are constructed so that the center of the gimbal bearing is the same height as the opening of the bearing. You instal the bearing and align the inner bearing so that the hole looks directly at the opening in the coupler. Slide the tool in so that it hits exactly in the center of the coupler, then adjust the engine up or down so that the tool is exactly aligned with the bore of the coupler and slides freely in and out. Don't worry about the inner bearing angle till the bearing is installed. Use the tool to align the bearing with the coupler.

 

[montejw360]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

It's a Gimbal bearing. It's designed to move in the carrier. When you install it, use your alignment tool to centre it up...

Chris....

chris, everything i've seen makes it look like you are aligning the engine up to the bearing, not the other way around. i've dropped the front of my engine over 1/4". now the coupler is higher than it was before i removed the engine.

if you raise or lower the front of the engine enough, the center line of the coupler isn't even going to be lined up with the center line of the gimbal bearing no matter how much you rotate the bearing in the carrier.

the bearing or engine has to be lined up somehow as a starting point.

what would you do if you had a gimbal bearing that was obviously crooked in the carrier that you needed to install, and an engine you wanted to install, but the front motor mount was in pieces? essentially, that's where i'm at.

when it's all done right, the center line of the gimbal bearing will line up exactly with the center line of the engine crankshaft. if the front of the engine is too high or too low that can't happen. you can only adjust the rotation of the bearing within the carrier, not the up/down or the side to side. you can adjust the up/down of the front of the engine in order to point the center line of the crankshaft and coupler so it points right into the center of the gimbal bearing. then you only need to have the gimbal bearing rotated in the carrier so it is aligned with the crankshaft/coupler center line.

 

[montejw360]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

Uhhhh.. It is a GIMBAL bearing and the inner bearing is supposed to turn in the outer housing. That allows the bearing to align itself with the engine coupler regardless of the angle of the transom with respect to the engine. The gimbal housing and the transom plate are constructed so that the center of the gimbal bearing is the same height as the opening of the bearing. You instal the bearing and align the inner bearing so that the hole looks directly at the opening in the coupler. Slide the tool in so that it hits exactly in the center of the coupler, then adjust the engine up or down so that the tool is exactly aligned with the bore of the coupler and slides freely in and out. Don't worry about the inner bearing angle till the bearing is installed. Use the tool to align the bearing with the coupler.

read my reply to chris. i'm starting with a front engine mount that's in pieces and a crooked gimbal bearing. how to i start? the height of the front mount will change the height of the coupler. not much, but it does.

again everything i've seen shows aligning the engine to the bearing. i've never seen any instructions, video, or anything showing how to align the bearing to the engine.

 

[montejw360]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

It's a Gimbal bearing. It's designed to move in the carrier. When you install it, use your alignment tool to centre it up...
You said you dropped the engine 1/4". Wind it back up that amount. That's your starting point...

Chris....

the 1/4" is a best guess. i didn't take any measurements or mark anything before starting. i couldn't begin to get the engine back to where it was before with any accuracy.

 

[achris]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

Yes, you align the engine to the gimbal. But you do need to get the gimbal centred (roughly) first.

Where would I start? I'd fit the bearing then use the alignment tool to get it roughly in line. Next eyeball the engine alignment then use the tool to finalize it.... And that will also align the bearing...

Chris....

 

[Bondo]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

the 1/4" is a best guess. i didn't take any measurements or mark anything before starting. i couldn't begin to get the engine back to where it was before with any accuracy.

Ayuh,.... Did you get the Rear motor mount stack of parts, Correct,..??

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

the height of the front mount will change the height of the coupler.

The height of the front mounts changes the angle of the coupler. The fixed rear engine mounts set the height of the coupler (in line with the gimbal). Start with the correct installation of the rear mounts, then hover the engine over the front mounts using the rigging point on the front of the engine and adjust the hover point till you get the alignment tool inserted. (basic engine installation method).

 

[montejw360]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

Ayuh,.... Did you get the Rear motor mount stack of parts, Correct,..??

yeah, using the oem service manual.

 

[montejw360]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

The height of the front mounts changes the angle of the coupler. The fixed rear engine mounts set the height of the coupler (in line with the gimbal). Start with the correct installation of the rear mounts, then hover the engine over the front mounts using the rigging point on the front of the engine and adjust the hover point till you get the alignment tool inserted. (basic engine installation method).

and if the crooked gimbal bearing is causing the alignment tool to go up, or down, or off to the side?

 

[84EdH]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

Monte, as Chris said, set the bearing/carrier assembly with your new install tool. it will push the center swivel part of the bearing closer to the correct position. How? the carrier (outside ring) sets against a flat surface in the gimbal housing. with your flat installation tool, the gimbal bearing (center part) will be pushed flat into the carrier. you can do this on the bench, but it is hard to hold the carrier still, and you don't want to beat on the center of the bearing too much.

there is a normal, necessary procedure for the final alignment of the gimbal bearing, accomplished with the alignment tool, before you start to adjust the engine. if your WAY off with your engine, you may need to get it closer to correct position, before gimbal bearing alignment. Look through, your installed gimbal bearing after you set it (and push the bearing flat, as I said above) to get a rough idea of which way to move the engine. (front of engine up=coupler moving down).

once you can get the engine, close by eye, use the alignment tool to make a final gimbal bearing alignment using the method described in your oem manual, by inserting aling. tool through gimbal and just into or touching coupler spline area and bump it up, down, right, left, to aid in "gimbaling, or swiveling the bearing center little bits, until it starts to enter the coupler. check for to see if tool goes in a little better after each bump. once the center of the gimbal bearing is set, do your engine alingments with grease marks etc.

sometimes you have to set gimbal bearing center with align. tool, try engine alignment, and not get good alignment, and go back and try adjusting gimbal bearing again. the guys that do it a lot do it in a few minutes. it took me a couple of days my first time. Just to be clear, the bearing and carrier are installed, or set, into position in the gimbal housing with your install tool. the carrier sets in only one postion, and once set, does NOT need any further adjustment. after setting entire carrier, bearing assembly, only the center bearing will be swiveled around to help align, with engine coupler. good luck!

 

[Bondo]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

and if the crooked gimbal bearing is causing the alignment tool to go up, or down, or off to the side?

Ayuh,.... The bearin' is Gimballed, it swivels, Inside the bearin' carrier,....
It's like yer eyeball, in yer eyeball socket,...

That's Why ya start the Bar into the bearin', 'n Gimbal it to close to the coupler,....

 

[montejw360]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

Monte, as Chris said, set the bearing/carrier assembly with your new install tool. it will push the center swivel part of the bearing closer to the correct position. How? the carrier (outside ring) sets against a flat surface in the gimbal housing. with your flat installation tool, the gimbal bearing (center part) will be pushed flat into the carrier. you can do this on the bench, but it is hard to hold the carrier still, and you don't want to beat on the center of the bearing too much.

the sierra tool won't help align the bearing in the carrier, i'll need to get a different install tool. the rest of your post makes sense. seems sort of trial and error, but if that's the way it's done that's it i guess. thanks.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

the sierra tool won't help align the bearing in the carrier, i'll need to get a different install tool. the rest of your post makes sense. seems sort of trial and error, but if that's the way it's done that's it i guess. thanks.

It should. You are using just the bar, right, without the instillation tool on it? Push the bar all the way in till it hits the coupler. Hop in the boat and see where it is in relation to the center of the coupler. Tap the other end of the bar the opposite way to get it to align with the hole. If the rear mounts were assembled correctly, the height will be correct. Then it is a matter of raising or lowering the engine to get the tool to slide in.

 

[84EdH]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

it is trial and error. a 1/8th inch increase or decrease in engine height can be the difference between the bar sliding all the way in smooth, or banging on the splines. if your install tool doesn't contact the center of the bearing, I see what your saying, that it wont straighten the bearing. just set the bearing/carrier assembly on the bench, use a light hammer and a block of wood and tap the bearing until its flat with the carrier. then install

 

[montejw360]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

It should. You are using just the bar, right, without the instillation tool on it? Push the bar all the way in till it hits the coupler. Hop in the boat and see where it is in relation to the center of the coupler. Tap the other end of the bar the opposite way to get it to align with the hole. If the rear mounts were assembled correctly, the height will be correct. Then it is a matter of raising or lowering the engine to get the tool to slide in.

you are thinking of an alignment bar with an install mandrel bolted to it, i don't have one of those. i bought the big sierra kit with mandrels for many different bearings on the engine and outdrive.

i have an alignment bar, but i don't have the mandrel that fits over it for driving in the bearing.

 

[montejw360]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

it is trial and error. a 1/8th inch increase or decrease in engine height can be the difference between the bar sliding all the way in smooth, or banging on the splines. if your install tool doesn't contact the center of the bearing, I see what your saying, that it wont straighten the bearing. just set the bearing/carrier assembly on the bench, use a light hammer and a block of wood and tap the bearing until its flat with the carrier. then install

it makes contact with the inner race of the bearing, but just enough to keep the outer mandrel lined up on the carrier for driving it in. it won't help rotate the bearing in the carrier.

 

[montejw360]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

Ayuh,.... The bearin' is Gimballed, it swivels, Inside the bearin' carrier,....
It's like yer eyeball, in yer eyeball socket,...

That's Why ya start the Bar into the bearin', 'n Gimbal it to close to the coupler,....

i understand swiveling the gimbal bearing around in order to line it up with the coupler, but my problem is that i don't know if my coupler is close to the correct position.

the other bearing i installed i was able to get the alignment bar started in the coupler, but had to make a huge (to me) change in the front engine mount height to get the bar to slide into the coupler. i made to change to the bearing itself, only the engine.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: new gimbal bearing, bearing is crooked in aluminum carrier

the other bearing i installed i was able to get the alignment bar started in the coupler, but had to make a huge (to me) change in the front engine mount height to get the bar to slide into the coupler. i made to change to the bearing itself, only the engine.

Do you mean "no change to the bearing:? You need to move the bearing until the bar centers on the coupler, then move the engine mount as necessary to get the bar to slide into the coupler.