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Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

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  • #16
    Re: Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

    Good question. It connects on the VR (purple wire) with the red wire (wiring diagram says orange). It goes up into the wireing harness so hard to tell where it comes out. Here's a pic and the wiring diagram.Click image for larger version

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    Yes wiring diagram is attached.

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    • #17
      Re: Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

      According to http://www.sterndrives.com/470_coolant_leak.html yours removes by turning it clockwise. Also may have had red loctite used so you may need to heat it.

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      • #18
        Re: Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

        I tried heat no help and it just make the head softer and strip more

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        • #19
          Re: Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

          Originally posted by vjcthree View Post
          I tried heat no help and it just make the head softer and strip more
          You could try heating the stud and removing that. I think it takes an allen wrench. Not sure which way that turns.
          Terry
          87, 4WINNS H 190
          470/Alpha I

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          • #20
            Re: Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

            Originally posted by ChazzL View Post
            Good question. It connects on the VR (purple wire) with the red wire (wiring diagram says orange). It goes up into the wireing harness so hard to tell where it comes out..
            The "one wire" must go to the battery. So you could run the wire to the large stud on the starter and remove all of the wires from the VR.
            Terry
            87, 4WINNS H 190
            470/Alpha I

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            • #21
              Re: Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

              Originally posted by stonyloam View Post
              You could try heating the stud and removing that. I think it takes an allen wrench. Not sure which way that turns.
              Couldn't you figure it out by the normal rotation of the camshaft? In other words, you'd want the inertia of the stud to always apply a tightening torque when the camshaft starts turning. So if you imagined holding the loose stud stationary and cranked over the engine, would it be righty-tighty or lefty-loosey that caused the stud to tighten into the camshaft? Do you follow?
              Mercruiser 470 s/n 0B648337
              Alpha One s/n 0B754718
              '87 Four Winns Horizon 170

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

                Originally posted by stonyloam View Post
                The "one wire" must go to the battery. So you could run the wire to the large stud on the starter and remove all of the wires from the VR.
                That makes sense. Actually, I would connect it to the battery stud on the solenoid (it is separate from the starter on this model).

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                • #23
                  Re: Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

                  OK. Here is the start of Day Two. (I'm keeping this as one thread). The stator is off. I got one of the frozen bolts off, but had to cut the last one, and then break it off at the block. It was trashed: busted magnets, rusted, bashed, pretty bad. Probably why the alternator conversion was put in to begin with.
                  You can see here the stator and triangular hose connector are removed. (note the coil in the upper left corner. More on that in a sec.). 3rd pic is the water pump cover removed exposing the impellor which came off fairly easily. I cut the oil pan gasket with a razor blade and removed the timing chain front cover. You have to go carefully and and break the gasket seal all around. Then you slowly pry the cover STRAIGHT off all around. I did not know where the 2 pin/dowels were located, or it would have been easier to start at their location. They are marked with the arrows. The third arrow shows the cork oil pan gasket.
                  Click image for larger version

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                  Now, back to the coil. When I disconnected the distributor wire from the coil, underneath the boot the coil recessed connector area was filled with oil?? Is this normal?

                  Also, you can see the two etched grooves in the cam. The most forward one I can feel with my fingernail. That's why the seal failed and coolant started leaking. The 2nd groove is very faint, but you can tell it's on it's way to joining the other as a serious problem.
                  Click image for larger version

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                  Now I go to measure the cam for the speedi-sleaves. Also set up the drill press to work remove/reilstall the seals in the front cover plate. More on that later.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

                    My guess on the coil is that it is leaking. It's probably an oil filled coil. Clean it out and see if it re-accumulates.

                    I repaired my camshaft with speedi-sleeves. So far so good. To verify proper placement after meticulous SWAG'ing, I blackened the sleeve with permanent marker, assembled the cover, spun the cam, the took apart to see where the ink had been removed by the seal. I tried to get it right in the middle of the sleeve. Don't accidentally drive it on too far because you can't pull it back off (I don't think). It took me a few assemblies/disassemblies before I got it right.

                    You've got a lot of rust stains in your water pump area. When I rebuilt mine, everything was clean metal on the inside. Wonder why yours is so rusted?
                    Mercruiser 470 s/n 0B648337
                    Alpha One s/n 0B754718
                    '87 Four Winns Horizon 170

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                    • #25
                      Re: Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

                      An oil filled coil. I never knew they existed. I'll see how it goes when starting up. No problems before....
                      As for proper placement your technique seems good, but I'm not sure I want to go through all that. I was thinking I would center the sleeves over the gouges, and then make sure the new seals are in exactly the same place/depth where the old ones were. I didn't even realize you could install them to different depths on the cover. I'm going to play with removing them later today and see what the situation is. Also, I was planning on using green locktite once the sleeves were in place. I understand it will seep in under the sleeve and secure it like the red would. Anyone have any suggestion on that?
                      I'm a little concerned about the rust myself. I had plain water in the cooling system after putting in a new thermostat. Before I could add a rust inhibitor I found this water pump leak. Will a week or so of plain water cause rust in the manifolds or engine? I figure when everything is back together I'll do a flush and refill with proper rust-inhibitor.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

                        Originally posted by ChazzL View Post
                        As for proper placement your technique seems good, but I'm not sure I want to go through all that. I was thinking I would center the sleeves over the gouges, and then make sure the new seals are in exactly the same place/depth where the old ones were.
                        That's precisely the reason I did the permanent marker thing. That's the only way I could be 100% sure that they were in the correct place. It's not a lot of work. Blacken the sleeve, shove on the cover, turn the crank, yank off the cover and see where the ink was removed by the seal lip. I wasn't completely re-assembling everything, although my post probably made you think that.

                        I used red (high strength) Loctite on the sleeves, but I wouldn't on the capillary effect to get it under the sleeve since it's pretty thick the sleeve is very snug. I liberally applied it to the sleeve and camshaft before I installed it, then wiped off the excess.

                        Why aren't you using anti-freeze/coolant or is that what you're calling rust inhibitor?
                        Mercruiser 470 s/n 0B648337
                        Alpha One s/n 0B754718
                        '87 Four Winns Horizon 170

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

                          Beginning of "Day 3". (at least the 3rd day of working on the repair. Some days I have to actually do "earn a living" work).
                          Re: Anti-freeze. Everything I read says that in a tropical climate (I'm in SW Florida) anti-freeze is un-necessary if you use a good rust-inhibitor (not a/f). Even the service manual states this. In fact, I've read that a/f actually causes the engine to run hotter than plain water. It may keep it from boiling over or freezing I guess. I would greatly appreciate some of the expert opinions on this.
                          I measured the water pump cam yesterday and picked up the speedi sleeves, $22 each.
                          Today I picked up the new parts I ordered: 2 cam seals, a front cover gasket kit, and a front main cam seal. $86.
                          Here's the front cover, ready to remove the seals. There are two of them. In between the two was the "spring ring" -loose. Only found one though. Should have been two. Hmmmm. Also the areas in-between the 2 seals had lots of grease in it. Should I be packing grease in there when I install the new ones?
                          Click image for larger version

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                          I just finished tackling the removal of the water pump seals. What a B%#@H! I created my own "seal puller" (thanks to natemore's "home-made tools" for inspiration).
                          Click image for larger version

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                          I happen to have a strong washer just the right size to fit inside the cover and press on the seals. I started to compress but there was no give at all. Then I remembered the red loctite possibility so I pulled out my trusty heat gun and warmed the heck out of cover. I warned both sides evenly to keep from causing any warp. When I went back to compressing it let out a "BANG" that I was sure was the cover plate cracking! But, all seemed ok so I kept compressing. Not much good though. One seal was being flattened against the other, but there was no progress. I heated some more, compressed some more. Got another bang or two as the seals were "breaking free". I went slow, switched to some PVC unions, etc. No progress. I took a chance and did some very fine cutting with my Dremel tool, into the seals, being very careful not to touch the cover plate. Not sure if it was the winning factor or not but FINALLY!...it broke free! You can see (maybe) the one seal (on the left) that was crushed.

                          Once apart I could see what happened. Here are 2 pics, one from each side. I was pushing in the direction of the arrow.
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                          You can see the drain hole that is in-between the 2 seals when assembled. This is what leads to the leaking coolant weep hole if the first seal malfunctions. I was pushing the 2nd seal towards the 1st when the edge of the seal gouged into the side if the drain hole. Those 2 "dashes" are gouges in the metal. The seal was caught up ion the edge of the hole but finally broke free. I will try to lightly grind down the raised edge of the 2 gouges with the Dremel tool.
                          BTW, I did not see any evidence of red loctite. (Would it still be red)? The repair instructions say to use Red Loctite on the seals when installing them. Is that correct?
                          Tomorrow I install the 2 new seals, remove/replace the main cam seal, and start the re-assembly process. Who knows?.....Maybe I'll get to go fishing this weekend!

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                          • #28
                            Re: Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

                            Originally posted by natemoore View Post
                            That's precisely the reason I did the permanent marker thing. That's the only way I could be 100% sure that they were in the correct place. It's not a lot of work. Blacken the sleeve, shove on the cover, turn the crank, yank off the cover and see where the ink was removed by the seal lip. I wasn't completely re-assembling everything, although my post probably made you think that.
                            BTW...I mis-understood the process. The new seals are in a pre-determined position in the cover, but the sleeves need to be positioned just right. I'm planning on pressing the first seal in as far as it will go into the cover. Then the second will go until it's just inside the lip. This would leave enough space between them to make sure the weep hole is not blocked. That sound right?
                            Then I'll use your marker system to position the sleeves. What's the best way to turn the cam? Just put the bolt in the end and turn it? Thanks for all the help.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

                              I didn't have a problem getting my seals out. I used a screw driver and pried up one side. Popped right out. Same with every oil seal I've ever removed. Look at an actual seal puller tool. It just hooks under one side of the seal and uses the opposite side of the seal as the fulcrum. Instead of overcoming a little friction a little at a time, you had to overcome 100% of the friction (times 2) at one time.

                              Come to think of it, I may have tapped them out from the opposite side using a flat-tipped nail punch. Either way, they came out easily as I recall.

                              Go easy with that Dremmel tool. I wouldn't even use it. Since the cover is aluminum, I'd just scrape off the high points with a utility knife and use fine sand paper to smooth it out.

                              Do you have the #8 service manual? All the proper procedures are in there.

                              Paraphrasing the manual: Apply Loctite 8831 to outside diameter of oil seals. Do not allow it to get on lips. Support underside of cover when installing seals. Both seal lips face water side. First one is bottomed out. Second one is flushed with the cover surface. Space in between is filled with Quicksilver 2-4-C. Install crankshaft seal with seal lip toward engine block. Press seal in until it bottoms out. Lube seal lip with 2-4-C. Lube crankshaft end and water pump shaft with 2-4-C. New style impeller with stud: apply Loctite 8831 to threads in camshaft. Install stud and torque. DO NOT apply Loctite to impeller threads. Install and torque impeller. Apply Perfect Seal to cover gasket and bolt threads.

                              I used Loctite 271 (red high strength) and Permatex aviation liquid Form-A-Gasket instead of 8831 and Quicksilver Perfect Seal.
                              Mercruiser 470 s/n 0B648337
                              Alpha One s/n 0B754718
                              '87 Four Winns Horizon 170

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                              • #30
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                                Re: Replacing the Water Pump Cam Seals on 1982 Mercruiser 470 -Day One

                                I think I'd be more comfortable turning the crankshaft with the bolt installed, not the camshaft.
                                Mercruiser 470 s/n 0B648337
                                Alpha One s/n 0B754718
                                '87 Four Winns Horizon 170

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