My Merc 470 rebuild

artificialreef

Chief Petty Officer
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Feb 21, 2009
Messages
504
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Woops, retraction. I see you allready did 3 of the 4 comments i made. I guess by the time i got to the bottom of the thread i forgot what i read at the top. The aluminum heads may still be something you didnt think of. I did also read that you "cut" your heads. Do you mean decked them or a complete refurb? If you just decked them you may still want to consider the above. It really isnt done much but seems really interesting.
 

alexr254

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 21, 2011
Messages
262
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Stonyloam: I was browsing the forums and found this starter http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-7170-new-mercruiser-crusader-marine-starter-omc-ccw-inboard-sdr0105.aspx. What do you think?

Artificialreef: We have a 1987 Imperial 260FC. Body and interior is in great shape and it ran one year ago, but since then it was dry docked and abandoned. One of the engines was in the process of being rebuild when it was abandoned, the other was working but after a year of sitting, its locked. Also we are not quite ready to invest too much money into getting new heads. The heads that came with the engine, we got re-cut and we will re-use. By this Friday the block, and crankshaft will be ready at the machine shop.

When i say re-cut, i mean we took them to the machinist to get them leveled and resealed.
 

alexr254

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 21, 2011
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262
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Can anyone tell me which starter solenoid i need to buy for this engine?

The ARCO starter does not have a solenoid on it, not sure which i need.
 

stonyloam

Vice Admiral
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Mar 13, 2009
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5,827
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Stonyloam: I was browsing the forums and found this starter http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-7170-new-mercruiser-crusader-marine-starter-omc-ccw-inboard-sdr0105.aspx. What do you think?

That is listed as CCW rotation you need a CW rotation like this http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?r=view&i=27375DS&cID=SHOPZ_27375DS
those listed part numbers should match up with yours. Yours without the solenoid attached is probably a 50-72550

Found this, may help: Rotation is always determined by looking at the flywheel end of an inboard engine. The flywheel of a standard rotation engine turns left, or counter-clockwise, when viewed from the flywheel. Starter motors, when mounted forward of the flywheel, will turn clockwise (R.H.) to start a standard rotation (L.H.) counter-clockwise motor. Starters mounted aft of the flywheel will turn counter-clockwise (L.H.) to start the same engine. Everything is just the opposite when speaking of a reverse rotation (R.H.) clockwise engine. Yours is mounted forward of the flywheel and you have standard rotation.

Check out this one: http://www.amarket.com/mes5400m.htm thanks to yamahadude;)
 

alexr254

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 21, 2011
Messages
262
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

FINALLY... getting the block and crankshaft back from being repaired today.

I decided to get a new melling oil pump since the engine is already apart, and that part will not be easy to replace if ever needed later. Also got new lifters and pushrods.

hopefully this goes somewhat smoothly.

thanks all
 

alexr254

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 21, 2011
Messages
262
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Got them!

Today we installed the new pistons (speed pro hypereutectic pistons), we installed the crankshaft with all new bearings.Oiled all parts up nicely and tightened everything to spec.

Will continue in a few days with the rest of the rebuild.

We decided not to order a new timing chain, the old one looks new to me. I am definately not in it to spend money on a whim.

will update as we go along.

Tomorrow is my daughters 5 year old birthday party. So i will probably continue on Sunday :)
 

artificialreef

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
504
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Now that you have your motors out, check the integrity of your stringers and transom. 87 is alot newer than my 83 but is still a 23 yo boat. Was it stored on a lift, trailer or in the water?
 

artificialreef

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
504
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

some fuel tanks (like mine) cant be replaced without the motors out. Have a close look at that also.
 

alexr254

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 21, 2011
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262
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

The boat was dry docked, on bricks for roughly one year.
To be honest i am not really sure what to look for in the stringers and transom. I jumped around the cabin some to see if i felt like i was gonna fall through or find any really weak spots. It felt solid. In the dog house, the only rotted part is by where one of the batteries was. I dont think the wood there is vital to the boat structure, and it can be fixed easily. Everything else seems solid and does not rattle.

Also with the gas tank, i am not really sure what to do with that either. This tank cant be taken out even with the engines out. I smell a small gas vapor through the fill hole, but we havent had the chance to digdeeper. I stuck in a rubber tube and blew, seems the tank is empty. Worst case i may need to have it professionally treated, which i know is not cheap.

much lies ahead, now i am starting to think the engine rebuild may be the easy part.....

Here are some pics of the boat, taken with a phone and my daughter is in them.

Inside Cabin ---- Starboard View
268359_10150223981961881_681866880_7579118_4382940_n.jpg ---- 269852_10150223981781881_681866880_7579114_6915663_n.jpg


Port View ---- Future Capitan
253765_10150223981586881_681866880_7579109_2120202_n.jpg ---- 268521_10150223982216881_681866880_7579123_6846056_n.jpg



Those tags are old as i am in FL :)

i will take some photos of the engines too. For now they are still pretty much to the bone, with only the block, crank, cam, and pistons installed.
Also if you notice the trailer... The axels were blown, i just had 2 new 3500lb torsion axels installed.
And once im done with the mechanics and electrical, the boat will get a new paint job.
 

alexr254

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 21, 2011
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262
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

I also just ordered 8 new sets of rocker arms. The old ones look worn and kind of rusty.
http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/p/MELMRK547

Here is a link for the oil pump
http://www.hdmaddog.com/Ford-Lincoln-Mercury/Oil-Pumps-Parts-and-Pans/Ford-Mercruiser-Marine-p9455324.html

Link for the lifters
http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=95948F

Link for Push Rods
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170672365341

Also when i ordered the push rods, they only came in one size. I also noticed in manual #8 they mentioned the "possibility" of different sizes. All the old push rods are one size also... So this is somewhat tricky. I suppose we will see when what happens we install them.
 

alexr254

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 21, 2011
Messages
262
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

For some reason the ARCO starter does not retract... Is this normal behavior? The gears are constantly on the flywheel, i know the oem starters do retract.

Maybe its a problem with the starter?

We installed the starter, and put power to it from the battery just to test it, it is turning the engine, but as i said.. it dosnt retract when power is off from it.

what do you think?
 

alexr254

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 21, 2011
Messages
262
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Engine rebuild is going along well. so far we installed the crankshaft with all new bearings, all new pistons, oil pan, timing chain, water pump, gas pump, and front cover.. All with new seals and gaskets with an extra layer of gasket sealer and locktite on seals... next we will put in the new lifters, new push rods, new rocker arms, refurbed head, and manifolds. I am painting the parts as i go along a flat black paint which is rust resistant and can withstand 3000f heat. getting there!

I know i will eventually get into issues once we attempt to start her up... Gas pump may be bad, it seems clogged. roch 4bbl carb was rebuilt need to see if its ok, and I am still unsure if the starter will work as is.
 

Snapper_Kev

Recruit
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
2
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Hi Alex, and congrats on a great post & project. Like yourself I'm an IT engineer here in Australia and will soon be doing a 470 rebuild myself so I'm very interested in your progress.
Re your starter motor, if your solanoid is not mounted directly to starter but remotely on the block you probably have the older presolite style starter (I have this one as well), and it can be changed to the delco but you will need to re-wire the solenoid.
Cheers,
Kev
 

alexr254

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 21, 2011
Messages
262
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

Here is a seperate post i made about the starter.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=510683

It seems this type of starter is made like this by design and retracts only when the flywheel is going faster then the starters bendix. When i tested the starter on the engine, i did it with booster cables directly on the starter with no solenoid. I do have an external solenoid i will use when we are ready to fire up the engine for real.

We simply wanted to turn the engine over a few times with the new pistons and bearings installed, using the starter. It went fine except for the bendix.

Thanks for the comments and feedback. I will continue to update this thread up until we are in the water with a working engine :)
 

alexr254

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 21, 2011
Messages
262
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

So yesterday we installed the power steering pump, alt conv kit, head, rocker arms, lifters, push rods, intake maifold, carb (we fabricated gas line from copper 3/8" tube), oil filter system with oil coolant.

Here is a link to another thread which i asked about placement of the coolant fill cup after installing the alt conv kit with low mount
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=510908


We will continue today with the other side of engine, hopfully finish up the cooling system and exhaust.

So far so good.... we will see when it comes time to start her up.
 

Blue t

Cadet
Joined
Jun 12, 2011
Messages
17
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

HTML:
You should replace the fuel pump. If the diaphragm is bad it will pump raw fuel into the top of the carb and wash your new cylinders out causing the rings not to seat. I am new to boats but not new to engines and my 1988 470 was doing this causing a hydralock condition.
 

alexr254

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 21, 2011
Messages
262
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

We will test the fuel pump first, if tests dont pass we will replace it. We really dont want to replace parts that are not proven to be bad.

Our luck ran out today, the gaskets we have for the exhaust riser is the wrong one... We have the cast iron exhaust manifold, while the gaskets are for the aluminum. So were on hold until the newly ordered gaskets come in. I am also missing the steel plate, so i ordered that as well.

Today i also ordered spark plugs, cables and a distributor cap. The cables dont seem to be available from a regular auto shop, and need to be gotten from either a marine shop or online. Since the marine shops where i live totally are crap, we ordered them.

We will use the point ignition system for now, upgrading to the electronic before we place on the boat.

few more days of anxiety, looking at halfway rebuilt motor.
 

alexr254

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jun 21, 2011
Messages
262
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

According to the parts catalog, the steel plate is not there.
According to the service manual it is. And the manual states in bold letters "Gaskets and Plate must be installed as shown, or a leak will occur."

So things are conflicting, i will be on the safe side for now and order the plate and 2 gaskets just incase, then i will remove the riser from engine #2 and see how it was installed on there.
I ordered the overhaul gaskets kits, i ordered them for the SN model of my engine, one would figure you would get the correct gaskets and seals.
So far i am missing this gasket, i was also missing the cam seals. Had to order seperately causing days of delays in the rebuild.. it totally sucks to wait.
 

stonyloam

Vice Admiral
Joined
Mar 13, 2009
Messages
5,827
Re: My Merc 470 rebuild

To save you some trouble. If you look at the illustration (6B-2) you either need a) 2 gaskets & b) plate OR c) 27-97542 which is superseded by # 27-856705 (28 in the illustration, better double check those numbers LOL). So don't bother to try to find the old parts. Getting the right parts is fun huh?:rolleyes:
 
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