Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

[rhillman75]

:facepalm: Sorry for the long post... but I need HELP. In my profile section I have a 1996 Sylvan V196 open bow with a 1996 4.3LX Gen + Thunderbolt Ignition. Here are my issues... I bought the boat in September of last year. It had 150 hours on it and was VERY WELL maintained!!! I did hear it run on the muffs and besides the fact that he did have to "choke" it in neutral gear at 3/4 way to start then immediately bring it back to idle (telling me it was normal) and I could not argue, due to the fact I am a fule-injected tech. I have replaced the plugs (NGK TR5 2238) hoping those are right, I replaced the cap/rotor, fuel/water seperator/filter. I drained all the gas and put a can of seafoam in along with 87 octane today (previously had 1/8 tank on the guage). We took it out today and noticed at the ramp that I have to once again go full "choke" in neutral gear and crank it about 5 times at 5 second intervals beforeit would start. When it started it ran a little sluggish but after I hit the throttle a few times it seemed to run ALOT better. We ran it at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle about 2 hours on the water thne when coming to slow down for idle zone it literally "died" while I was waiting my turn to go under the bridge. I did get it restarted, but I had to "choke" it again to get it to stay running. 30 minutes later at the dock it died again. I managed to get it started again and literally "limp" it to the trailer. So with that said... we are leaving for Dale Hollow in 2 weeks for vacation and I am a little worried. I do have "reserve boat funds" left for replacement parts. The boat does NOT miss at any speed past idle that is what is confusing me.

Here is what I am thinking about getting.

1. Coil
2. New plugs (if the TR5s are wrong)
3. Fuel pump
4. Pull the carb and rebuild it
5. Suggestions PLEASE!!!

The last thing I want to do is go on a vacation after 5 years with a family expecting fun in the sun and having to keep it at the dock!

On the hind sight... I did find a water leak that seems to be coming from the tube/hose coupling from the inlet side. I think the hose is stretched... so I am replacing that this week. I also have a drive oil leak from the resevoir line that goes down to the transom at the brass fitting. It is the only place I see the drip and I lost the entire tank full out on the water today.

Pease help me out... I had a pontoon last year that was fuel-injected... so that was easy... this is a little challenging. I do have the service manual so before I spend $85.00 an hour for the Marina Service Center... I am trying this first.

 

[BIGALF]

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Did you check the fuel lines from the end of the pick up tube to the water seperator? There may be a screen in the pick up tube that gets clogged up when you slosh the fuel in the tank by running in the water. This will not show as a problem when run on the muffs. Check it it's an easy check.

 

[Don S]

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

I did hear it run on the muffs and besides the fact that he did have to "choke" it in neutral gear at 3/4 way to start then immediately bring it back to idle
I have to once again go full "choke" in neutral gear and crank it about 5 times at 5 second intervals beforeit would start.

From the sounds of your description, I'm not really sure anything is wrong. More a problem of not understanding how a carb works,
In your statements above, moving the throttle lever is NOT Choking it.
When you start a cold carbed engine, you pump the throttle a time or two to squirt fuel into the engine through the accelerator pump, and it lets the choke plate close. Moving the throttle lever, does not move the choke.
Once you start the engine, you need to let it warm up before going someplace. This usually takes a few minutes. You will also have to raise the throttle up to 1000 to 1300 rpm to keep the engine running smooth with out flooding out until the choke opens up.
On a warm engine, you may have to open the throttle up to 1/8 or 1/4 to start, but should be able to bring it back to idle after only a few seconds.
Carbed engines do not always start and run in the idle position like fuel injected engines do. They take some getting used to.

 

[rhillman75]

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Then I gues the next question is why would it be dying and EXTREMELY hard to start when warm? I know... that is the answer I have to dig for! So let me give you a run down of how I cold start the motor. I turn on the ignition, press the neutral saftey button on the commander, and push the throttle 3/4 way forward, then I crank the motor until it starts. I take it that that is NOT correct. I have to do the same scenario when starting it even when it's warm. What is the proper way??? I am also questioning the NGK TR5 2238 spark plugs I got as a cross reference from AutoZone (are these correct?)

 

[Bondo]

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

I take it that that is NOT correct.

Nope, yer Right, that's the Wrong way of goin' about it...

You haven't said What carb, but anyways,...
To set the choke on a carb, the throttle has to be advanced to WOT, at least Once....

I cold start mine at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle, 'n just pull back when she Lights....
Warm starts are at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle, same deal, just no choke, 'n warm-up...

If anything, the filters could be changed, 'n the contents inspected for Crud...
If anything is found, a carb Rebuild might be in order....

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

If you have a carb you release the control to throttle only, pump the lever 3 or 4 or 5 times, bring control handel back to almost neutral, turn the key to start, control rpm with lever till warmed.
An engine with TKS (turn,key ,start ) uses a different procedure

 

[rhillman75]

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

I have the Merc Carb 2 barrel and I was going off what the go had showed me in the starting of it. So if I am understanding everyone correctly. Turn the key, push the button at the bottom of the control lever (disengage drive) and rock it back and forth from full to neutral up to five times then return it back to 1/4 way from neutral and start? Sound right? Do you know what would cause it to die when I went to slow down to idle zone then repeatedly having to choke it to get it to start and then again dying in neutral at the dock? If thats the case then how long do you let it "warm" up when your dropping it from the trailer? Unfortunately around this area people have zero patients at the marina and give you 5 minutes to drop your boat due to their long lines and their greedy little needs for awaiting customers if you know what I mean!

 

[Bondo]

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Do you know what would cause it to die when I went to slow down to idle zone then repeatedly having to choke it to get it to start and then again dying in neutral at the dock?

Ayuh,... It's entirely possibly you have Carb Issues besides the startin' thing....

And what do ya mean, Repeatedly choking it,..??

 

[rhillman75]

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Well to give you an idea... and even though it is in my driveway and on the muffs... I have to push the gear disengage button (which I found to be normal now) and push the throttle back and forth (pumping as they call it) 5-8 times and then returning it to 1/2 way back from neutral to get her to start then bring her back down after a minute or so when I feel comfortable enough to think it will idle. I ran it on the muffs for about 10-15 minutes... then took the 15 minute drive to the ramp. When I went to unload her... I had to once again pump the throtttle again to get her to start and go to the docks. I ran her for about 2 hours at various speeds and rpms and then when it came down from about 20 mph to idle, it died while I was waiting in line for other boats to pass under the bridge. At that point... I could only get her to restart when I had the throttle at full with the button pushed in. I then revved her a couple of times to get her idling again. Then I limped her back to the dock where she died again while she was tied up and in neutral. To get her to the trailer I had to start her gain with full throttle with the button pushed in and nurse her to the trailer.

 

[Don S]

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Your carb may need repair. Do you get 2 good streams of gas squirted in the carb when you open the throttle to WOT?

 

[MillerSVT]

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

I would also caution how much seafoam it's running on as well, don't know how big the tank is, but that seafoam could cause issues and/or knock some crud loose in the carb.

Also timing would be a good thing to check.

 

[81 Checkmate]

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

Re: Guys..."you've REALLY helped me before and now I "NEED" it AGAIN!!!

You might be pumping it too many times and flooding the carb.
Check to see if both squirters on the carb are working as Don said, if so then you are getting fuel.

Then try this.
1. Push on your button to disingauge it and move thottle down to WOT then back to neutral then add to 1/4 thottle down then try and start. What this does is give a shot of fuel to start the engine.

2. If it does not start like this then try 2 pumps and see if it starts.

What will happen is you will get into a Routine when starting your boat. lIKE 2 PUMPS START THEN IDLE UP FOR A FEW THEN TAKE OFF and so on!

One question ? When you say the boat dies is it still in gear, like you are puttin along then it dies? Or does it die when you are shifting back to neutral?