Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

Jim Marshall

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I just completed this engine. It is a '74 302 Ford/Glastron/Volvo. I had the engine rebuilt. It had 351 heads. Other new parts (all marine) include circulation pump, fuel pump, Mallory breaker-less distributor, Mallory marine ignition wires. Rebuilt are the carburetor and raw water pump.

I got the top dead center and set the distributor as closely as I could. It is harder with the breaker-less because you can't feel the points breaking.

I have tried moving it various degrees with no luck. It fires but I can't get it close enough to get it running to use the timing light. It backfires easily.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim
 

lilb

Seaman
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Nov 28, 2009
Messages
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Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

I it is backfiring easily and wont stay running it might be 180 deg off. Line up the timing marks on the ballancer and timing cover and pull the distributor and spin the rotor 180 deg. Or you might have a few of the plug wires missplaced
 

Jim Marshall

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172
Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

I it is backfiring easily and wont stay running it might be 180 deg off. Line up the timing marks on the ballancer and timing cover and pull the distributor and spin the rotor 180 deg. Or you might have a few of the plug wires missplaced

I believe I have the TDC okay and I have checked the firing order. I am going to check with the engine rebuilder as I have heard there were two different cams in the 302's. I tried the other firing order with no results.

Jimj
 

lilb

Seaman
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Nov 28, 2009
Messages
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Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

You might have the tdc rite but timing marks will line up twice with two differend tdc's. One tdc on the compression stroke (which is whhere u want to be) and one on the exhaust stroke (which is where you could be now)

I just had the same problem with my engine (350) but the builder said it was where it was supposed to be but nope 180 off
 

Jim Marshall

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Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

I will try it tomorrow. I checked the TDC according to a post but rotating it 180 degrees is simple enough.

Jim
 

chaparall villain 2

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Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

best way to tell is to pull the number one plug and as it is coming up to the timing mark have someone hold finger over number one plug hole as it comes up it should blow your finger off the hole
 

Jim Marshall

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Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

I am back from my trip to the mountains and will try the timing thing again. I am going to turn the inside of an old spark plug out and make it a little easier to feel the compression while cranking with a wrench.

Next problem is to be able to see the timing in the sunlight. My timing light is 12 volt powered and should do it but it looked a bit weak.

jim

Jim
 

Bifflefan

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May 27, 2009
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Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

Make sure you have the correct firing order for the cam that is in it. A stock 351 and 302 have different firing orders. And they make cams for both with both firing orders.
I belive you have the wrong one from the discription you posted.

For a 302 cam its 1 5 4 2 6 3 7 8
For a 351 cam its 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8

it wont hurt to try the opposite one you have right now.

Do you have 12v going to the dist? the factory wire is only carrying 9v when its running.
 

haulnazz15

Captain
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Mar 9, 2009
Messages
3,720
Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

^ Definitely sounds like a spark plug wiring problem. Remember that the Ford 351/302's dizzy spins counter-clockwise, so make sure you arrange the plug wires that way!
 

6meter

Chief Petty Officer
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May 15, 2010
Messages
525
Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

Backfiring is telling you that a spark plug is firing when an intake valve is open. Ignition timing and/or plug wires are off.
 

Jim Marshall

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Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

I have the two firing orders which was a potential source. 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8 is the firing order listed on the valve cover decal. The cam was reground and I am wondering if maybe they got the directions wrong. I suppose I can find compression on number one, go to the next one in the firing order and see if it compressing.


You are right about the counter clockwise rotation on the distributor. I used a priming device to run the oil pump and ran it counter clockwise in my drill to pre-lube the engine. I took a week off for camping to get some relief. Should I run the lubrication routine again?

I am using a Mallory breaker-less distributor and the old coil. There is a resistor wired in and going through the wiring it looks like it bypasses the resistor when the engine is cranking. I must confess, the old one is the points type and I have never messed with breaker-less ignition. I thought basically it would be the same based on the wiring diagram from Mallory.

It seems that when I tore everything down from scratch, introduce new components like the new distributor and wires combined with the old coil I may be introducing a few too many variables. Maybe I should put the old one back until I get it running.

Now, if I can only get it running and then if I can see the timing light. As the fellow says in the old Clint Eastwood movie, "I will endeavor to perservere".

Thanks for all the troubleshooting suggestions.

Jim
 

rickryder

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Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

Go back to basics.Find#1 cylinder,insert a piece of paper towel in spark plug hole,tap motor around using bump starter button till paper pops out,insert wood dowel or pencil etc and turn crank shaft bolt by hand till piston reaches highest point,look at timing marker on engine and align to TDC,pull dist. cap look at rotor position that will be #1 of firing order also note rotation and start you firing order....you'll just have to try both firing orders you have to choose from.
 

a70eliminator

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Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

As mentioned above on firing order, you have number one TDC compression stroke, now continue to turn crankshaft and see if it's number 3 that comes up next or number 5 then you'll know for sure which camshaft you have.
 

frank246

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Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

If it has the 351 heads, 99% it also has the 351 cam and firing order.
Note that Ford cylinder numbers are different than Gm..
Left bank 1234 right bank 5678 (lookin at engine front)

Good luck!
 

Jim Marshall

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Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

For a 302 cam its 1 5 4 2 6 3 7 8
For a 351 cam its 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8

TODAY'S EXPEDITION:

I rotated 180 degrees---nothing.

I have spark and gas.

I then switched back with the 351 firing order. I found number one and then rotated. Three should have been next, looking at the distributor. It was the third instead. That makes no sense. Is it possible to have some other cam entirely?

Jim
 

chaparall villain 2

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Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

do you have the cam card and also i dont know about you but the plug configuration in the heads on fords are different than chevys... check to make sure the plug your looking at is the right one i know it confuses me i think fords are onebank 1234 other bank 5678 not sure i might be wrong maybe someone knows for sure ?
 

Jim Marshall

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Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

Very good point. I am assuming that the one bank is odd and the other is even. I didn't get a cam card. The rebuilder just gave me the engine assembled. I am assuming that the passenger side (if it were a car) would go 1 3 5 7.

Jim
 

Jim Marshall

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Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

Cylinder numbering Ford

The table below covers the positions and numbering for all cylinders on a windsor motor. Generally, it can be summarised as follows: When looking into the engine bay the number one cylinder should be on your left hand side (left bank) at the front of the engine. The number eight cylinder is on the rear right (right bank) up against the firewall.
Firewall
4 8
3 7
2 6
1 5
Front bumper


This is what I picked up and it explains everything. Boy do I feel stupid. The last engine I worked on was a Chevy that had this numbering.

FRONT
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
REAR

I assumed they were numbered similarly.

Jim
 

a70eliminator

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Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

Ok next post you should be telling us it ran.. I want to mention that when you have that number 1 piston up TDC compression and go to drop in the distrubutor to align rotor with number on the cap it gets tricky because the rotor may end up one hole beyond number one, you have to compensate the twist of the distributor gear by pointing the rotor a little to the left of where you want it to be, you probably already found this out though.
 

Jim Marshall

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Oct 14, 2007
Messages
172
Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

a70eliminator and chaparall and others who helped on this one.

It is a little tougher on the breakerless, at least as I recall. Thanks anyway I will watch out for that. I am heading back to try it again, a little more humble.

I will let you know what the next encounter is.

Jim
 
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