What is the value of this motor?

DLNorth

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May 26, 2016
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For those of us playing along, how about some pics of the boat?
Is it even worth the effort?

Dan
 

Luposian

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Oh, it's DEFINITELY worth the effort. For $250 (boat AND trailer) + $25 to deliver from Patagonia, it's in sad shape (dead engine, gutted interor, rotted bow cushions, etc.), but with time and money, it will be on the waters of Patagonia or Parker Canyon Lake eventually. I'll never get my money out of it, so I plan to make this my first and last boat, keeping it for the rest of my life. At 50, I figure I've got about 40 more years to enjoy it... :-D
 

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DLNorth

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Check the transom for rot, and estimate the cost of the elec conversion.
(I suspect this could get expensive, the cheapest is likely a donor 140. Up here they can be had for free.)
And do you have machine shop access to fab adapters/mounts/etc?

And more pics.

Dan
 

Luposian

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Well, the first order of business is to get it cleared for ownership through AZ Fish & Game. The seller told me the original owner moved and told him to keep it, then died later on. Don't have a bill of sale and the last sticker on it is for 04-14. So, over 4 yrs. ago was the last time registration was renewed. Assuming the story is legit, I'm hoping family will release interest in the boat or that there's no way to reach the owner, so it will default to abandoned status and I can take possession and put it in my name. Doubt anyone would WANT to hold onto this boat in it's currently worthless condition. It's gonna take a lot of money to bring it back up to snuff.
 

StinkinRenken85

Seaman Apprentice
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Sep 17, 2018
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I’ve looked at a few of those throttle controls it’s worth more than you paid for the boat.
 

Luposian

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Re: The allowable RPMs for the prop, here's the pic of the engine label again (also shown on 1st page of this thread). Since this prop is most likely paired with the motor (assembled as a package), I think the W.O.T. (Wide Open Throttle) specs should be followed.
 

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achris

More fish than mountain goat
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For this post, when I say 'engine', I'm referring to the ICE. 'Motor' is the electric...

That maximum RPM is the engine RPM. When setting a boat up from new, or with a new engine, we test run at Wide open and see what revs the engine gets to. If it's higher than the spec, we use a higher pitch prop (more forward movement per revolution), if too low, we put a lower pitch prop on. The aim is to get the engine to revs at or near the top of the limit. If you have too much pitch, that doesn't just affect the top end, it overloaded the motor through the whole rev range.

The drive with this engine would have been 1.98:1 (standard ratio supplied with the 120hp engine), so the prop speed would be almost half, about 2,000rpm...

Set up the electric motor, then take it out and see what RPM you get from the motor. I would aim to have it run around 5,000 to 5,500rpm at full 'throttle' (that's motor revs, not prop revs)... If it is too low, use a lower pitch prop (allow the motor to spin a bit quicker). With a petrol engine, the 'rule of thumb' is that each 2" of pitch will change the engine speed around 400rpm. But as I have no idea of the torque characteristics of the electric motor you're planning on using, that may work, or it may be out the window. You're blazing new ground here.

You could also utilize the water pump in the drive to cool a heat exchanger for the motor's oil...

The other consideration is how you deal with forward, neutral and reverse. I'm not sure how it's done in a car, but I know that synchronous AC motors are quite happy to spin 'backwards' . You can't do this with a drive. You need to have the motor spin only one way (CW looking at the 'pulley end'). You may want to bring the motor to very close to a stop as the drive comes out of gear, this should allow you to do away with any sort of shift interrupter. But you'll need to have the motor spinning, even if very slowly, as you go into gear (forward or reverse)...

Cheers,

Chris.......
 

Luposian

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What do you mean by “pulley end”? Looking at the prop from outside the boat (facing the bow) or inside (facing the stern)? And what is this “pulley” you speak of? :-D
 

Scott Danforth

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achris

More fish than mountain goat
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What do you mean by “pulley end”? Looking at the prop from outside the boat (facing the bow) or inside (facing the stern)? And what is this “pulley” you speak of? :-D

I was trying to use a petrol engine analogy. Looks like I failed spectacularly :facepalm:. The 'pulley end' I was referring to was where the pulleys on a petrol engine would have been. The 'front' of the engine. So, let me try again.

Electric motor installed. You're standing in the boat, looking at the motor, facing aft. The end of the motor shaft you would see (if it wasn't sealed up) needs to turn CW....

Chris......

Very crude attempt to make a pretty picture....

DoR.png
 

Luposian

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NOW it all makes sense! :-D Thanks for the clarification, achris!
 

Luposian

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Based on the rust/corrosion I'm finding, as I pick apart this engine, trying to get access (note the word TRYING) to the two front (facing the stern drive) mounting bolts, I'm 99.9% certain this engine is toast. No matter, in that regard, but I still need it OUT! :-D

I don't have access straight down to them, so is there a socket extention or tool that can provide leverage at a weird crooked angle? My mind is visualizing something like a hand crank drill. The one with a ball-like top and you crank it around like you're churning butter, not like a hand crnk mixer. Weird analogy, but... there it is. :-D
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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You need to start referring to locations of parts you are trying to describe by their location on the engine with reference to the boat, not to what direction you are facing.. It's very confusing.

The front of the engine has the water pump and alternator on it. Doesn't matter if your standing on your head, it's still the front of the engine.. distributor and starter motor are on the starboard side and the carburettor is on the port side... The flywheel is at the rear of the engine.

The tool you're looking for is a wobble or uni joint for a socket...I assume you're trying to get to the engine rear mount bolts... You'll need a 3/4" socket...

Chris...
 

Luposian

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I’m trying to take off the stern drive, so I can remove the engine. I removed the bolts holding the hydraulic trim pistons on and then removed the six nylok nuts on the prop mechanism, but no matter how I tug or pull, it’s not budging. Am I doing something wrong or just don’t have enough leverage to get it off (I’m assuming the gasket is what’s making it so hard to remove)? What do I do? Would spraying WD-40 on the bolts and gasket help loosen things up?
 

Luposian

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Ok. Never mind. I lowered the front of the trailer and then kept lifting/dropping the stern drive and it finally broke loose. Just got it off and... MAN! That thing is HEAVY!!!

Now for the bad news... I see rust and corrosion. Not normal or good things to be seeing, I assume. I’ll show pictures in my next post.
 

Luposian

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Here's what I'm seeing. I should also comment that I believe water was coming out of a small pinhole on the starboard side of the top half (gear case?) of the stern drive mechanism (the part that has the four multi-point bolts are on top). Not good is it?
 

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achris

More fish than mountain goat
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At some stage that drive has had water in the bellows. You need to check out the bellows and gimbal bearing. Also, the upper shift Shaft Seal is leaking and you need to fit the new style seal.
 

Scott Danforth

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as far as drives go, you have one of the lightest. a Bravo is about another 60#
 
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