And this is why we do our maintenance.

harringtondav

Commander
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May 26, 2018
Messages
2,438
Loctite 601, super retaining compound?

I've got 609 and 271. I went with the 609. I'll see how it worked out later at tear down. <10hrs this short, high water summer, so any apparent success will be indeterminate. New parts. No worries. I'll never get 10 mi offshore. But a lock and dam or an approaching 15 barge tow keeps me kinda prudent.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
Update:

Last week I pulled the drive gear bearing pack apart. Not happy with the look of the bearings. The surfaces didn't have any scratches or pits, but had the appearance of 'staining' and since it was apart and the bearings don't cost that much (relative to the rest of the boat), I decided to put new ones in. Rang the bearing shop and was given a price of $111 for what I needed (2 of 25580, tapered rollers, and 2 of 25520, outer race), and yes, you guys in the States are paying less than half that.... A friend was heading out that way and offered to pick them up for me. :thumb: When he got there he was told that you could order them as a set pair, for $77. He messaged me and I opted for the set, but they didn't have any on the shelf and they'd be in on Tuesday (yesterday). No problem as the drive top cover will not be in till tomorrow... Yesterday went to the bearing shop to pick up the set... But didn't buy them. Unbranded bearings. I opted back to the Timkens... I'm not risking thousands of dollars damage to save $34 on Chinesium bearings... :facepalm:

Anyway, got the new bearings all set up at 8in-lb rolling torque preload and set the shimming at 25 thou clearance... Just need that top cap and I can set up the upper driveshaft preload and driven gear clearance and I can go diving... :D

Cheers guys.

Chris.....
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
Update 30/11/2018

Top cap arrived today. (Comes with a new top bearing and a shim pack). Ended up with 23 thou shims and the preload is very nicely at 8.5 in-lb. Put the bottom seal in and the drive gear/yoke assembly... Dropped the top housing onto the lower and bolted them together. One hour pressure test, no problem. One hour vacuum test, no problem... Filled with oil and I'll fit it back onto the boat in the morning... I'll also complete the reason for the removal in the first place...a video of my new drive lift trolley ..... :D

Cheers till the morning...
 
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harringtondav

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May 26, 2018
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Agree on chinesium parts

...uh, Timken and other trusted brands make some of their bearings in China. I read "made in China" on a Timken set that went into my Alpha. But not to worry. I traveled to China four times on business. GM, VW, Toyota all had plants there. Some for local market cars, some for 1st world car parts. The plants are managed and supervised by expats from their respective fatherlands.

Most of US steel is imported, a fair amount from China, including the fussy bearing, gear and shaft stuff. I spent a week hoteling with VW Germans. They said the products were up to snuff. Their big problem was keeping the third shift outbound loading docks secure from black market "shrinkage".

I was there to asses iron foundries and cast iron machining houses. Apparently OSHA doesn't translate into Mandarin.
 

Scott Danforth

Grumpy Vintage Moderator still playing with boats
Staff member
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harringtondav , i fully understand the global economy and what comes from China. I have been sourcing components for 30 years from most of the BRIC countries.

Experience has been the bearings and seals have been sub-par. Have had best luck with bearings from Europe

Most LED lighting comes from China, however the products from the netherlands are superior.

Castings from china are ok as long as you do not need to meet critical strength.

tires from china wouldnt hold air after 6 weeks.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
tyres from china wouldn't hold air after 6 weeks.

Their structural welds are on about the same par...

That said, I have seen some really nice stuff out of China, but it's just as expensive as anywhere else in the world... I guess that's the lesson. They are building to a price. If the standard and procedures are followed to produce the same quality, the cost is no different. People/companies buy Chinese because it's cheaper. But is it? "you get what you pay for."

Yes, those Timken bearings were made in China, but to the original Timken spec and standards. And I'm happy with that... (I'd prefer they were made in USA or Australia, to keep locals employed, but we can't have everything ;)...)

Chris.....
 
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harringtondav

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harringtondav
Castings from china are ok as long as you do not need to meet critical strength.

Right on. Our JD foundry here in Waterloo could hold 6mm , 1/4" wall thickness w/o a sweat. And their gray iron cut like butter. They tuned the brinell to the low end of the spec for our machining depts. Their nodular/ductile replaced steel forgings in many tractor draft link applications. Then they outsouced my castings to other foundries. Tool life dropped like a rock.

Then we started a transmission factory in China. 8 mm min walls. Gear face widths 130% over "normal" stds to account for sub par K chart profiles and bending properties. My final hurrah before checking out was to try and fix this corporate cost and quality brain fart. A few years after I retired the tranny ended up in Coffeyville KS. Go figure.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
UPDATE: 5/12/18

First trip out after the drive shaft housing rebuild. Ran perfectly, no horrid noises, drive not getting hot... :thumb:

Did nicely too....

Tassie 1

3 of us each got our bag limit... :D

P1020034 (800 x 600).jpg

Chris..........
 

Tassie 1

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 13, 2018
Messages
581
UPDATE: 5/12/18

First trip out after the drive shaft housing rebuild. Ran perfectly, no horrid noises, drive not getting hot... :thumb:

Did nicely too....

Tassie 1

3 of us each got our bag limit... :D



Chris..........

Very, very nice...but no-one likes a show off 🤑

STILL no word on " our " area opening up,
the CSIRO boat was out today taking samples, apparently has to go to Sincity to be tested, min 2 weeks so not looking like we will be able put our own pots out for chrissie dinner

And not dragging a Swiftcraft Stilleto dressed up as a wakeboat a 100ks up the road and then out into the Tasman for an overgrown yabby,

Could buy a lot of crays, even at retail prices, for what petrol or diesel costs to take either bigger boat out,

so will probably just walk down to the marina and get one or two of a commercial boat closer to the day,
 

CamaroMan

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Mar 18, 2016
Messages
323
hey Chris - nice to know bad stuff happens to the pros too haha.. curious - whats your take on scuffing the cap surface and using bearing retainer sealer, they have various ones depending on the wear.. and a new race of course.. i guess it would not be shimmed correctly? but might get u thru? if the back lash on the drive / input yoke is within spec it shd be ok? or not?

For example loctite 609 retaining compound
 

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harringtondav

Commander
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May 26, 2018
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2,438
hey Chris - nice to know bad stuff happens to the pros too haha.. curious - whats your take on scuffing the cap surface and using bearing retainer sealer, they have various ones depending on the wear.. and a new race of course.. i guess it would not be shimmed correctly? but might get u thru? if the back lash on the drive / input yoke is within spec it shd be ok? or not?

For example loctite 609 retaining compound

I did this with my top race last spring. After setting the driven gear height, shimming for preload/rolling drag/rolling torque. (International forum here, gotta respect the colloquialisms). Then I pulled the race, cleaned up with acetone and pushed it back with whatever Loctite 6xx green bearing locker I have in the shelf. My race hadn't spun, but it had a weak press on the cover. I patched another less-than-press fit joint with the green stuff. I was in a hurry to get on the water to salvage the last 1/4 of the season.

I'll tear it back down this winter and replace the suspect part$. That top end works fine if everything is w/in spec. I don't want an outdrive explosion in front of a 15 barge consist, or a lock and dam.
 

harringtondav

Commander
Joined
May 26, 2018
Messages
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Last week was March-like warm, so I finally built my outdrive cart/stand. I had to back the trailer tires on a pair of 2 xs to get the boat 3" up so drive would clear the garage floor. My sore old back thanks to all who showed me examples of their carts.

Good news is alignment is good. Bad news is my drive shaft bellows is also full of lube. But I think I know why. I did a reseal job last winter and I guessing I installed the yoke shaft seal backwards - garter spring out. Dyslexia. I'll know shortly.

IMG_20190111_124000292.jpgIMG_20190111_125811482.jpg
 

Chris51280

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
897
yup. mine was too but i did not change the yoke seal. all others though. :facepalm:
 

harringtondav

Commander
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May 26, 2018
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2,438
:nono::nono::nono:

:der: :lol:

I appreciate the mild reprimand. But another question: I recall one of your posts mentioning sleeves for this shaft. Mine has some seal grooving. I can replace the shaft along with the seal, but if the sleeve is a thin (w/in seal tolerance) slide on, loctite on repair, I may go for that instead. Any thoughts and references? Thanks.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
You have a couple of options. If the area forward of the seal isn't rusted, then you can set the seal about 40 thou deeper into the carrier. It will then ride on a 'new' surface (I do this routinely)... If the shaft surface is not really good enough, use a speedi-sleeve. I have used these on many occasions and they work very very well. With this particular surface, you just drive the sleeve on and you don't even have to remove the installation section of the sleeve. Just drive it on, assembly it... :D

Speedi-sleeve is now owned by SKF, it was Chicago-Rawhide.

http://www.skf.com/au/products/seal...als/wear-sleeves/skf-speedi-sleeve/index.html

Chris..........
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
For setting the seal deeper, I made a tool... (Of course I did... )

Just press the seal in as you would normally, then use the tool (pictured below) to drive it down a further 40 thou...

Chris.........

tool.JPG
 

Rick Stephens

Admiral
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
6,118
For setting the seal deeper, I made a tool... (Of course I did... )

Just press the seal in as you would normally, then use the tool (pictured below) to drive it down a further 40 thou...

Chris.........

Chris gettin fancy on us... again..... :p
 
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