2004 5.0 MPI wiring questions

bman440440

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1st off serial #0w061474
2nd the problem that is happening is that the alarms for the oil pressure/water temp/drive oil level is not working... when you turn the key on there is a "beep" and the instruments work but when I ground the water temp switch on the thermostat housing or push the float down in the drive reservoir I do not get any alarm or "buzzer"... this engine was installed in a 1998 trophy 2352... does the vast Iboats community have any ideas on what the problem might be??
Thanks in advance for your help!!
 

Walt T

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This appears to be an install on a different platform. Please explain again with every detail you have
 

Bt Doctur

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Are you actually wired for those alarms? under the dash should be a buzzer or horn . not a beep.
"A" in here
 
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bman440440

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Are you actually wired for those alarms? under the dash should be a buzzer or horn . not a beep.
"A" in here

yes... the boat does have the buzzer "A" and when you turn on the ignition it will sound for about 1 second then shut off
 

Bt Doctur

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Nope, the buzzer is hard wired to engine temp, no oil pressure, no drive oil. Get its 12v with the key to on position Alarm sound continuously when switch is closed , Alarms are normally open contacts and close when activated
Is the wire a tan/blue at the buzzer?
 

bman440440

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Nope, the buzzer is hard wired to engine temp, no oil pressure, no drive oil. Get its 12v with the key to on position Alarm sound continuously when switch is closed , Alarms are normally open contacts and close when activated
Is the wire a tan/blue at the buzzer?

yes it is... it's got a purple and a tan w/blue stripe wires... that's the strange thing... would it be ok to run an separate wire from the #4 pin (on engine side wiring harness) up to the dash and connect it to the buzzer? (assuming that all 3 switches are connected to it still)
 

achris

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Nope, the buzzer is hard wired to engine temp, no oil pressure, no drive oil. Get its 12v with the key to on position Alarm sound continuously when switch is closed , Alarms are normally open contacts and close when activated

Nope. All alarms are generated by the ECU, from digital signal inputs from sensors around the engine, including the drive lube monitor bottle...

Click image for larger version  Name:	Alarm.JPG Views:	1 Size:	104.5 KB ID:	10678061

Is the wire a tan/blue at the buzzer?

There should always be a tan/blue wire on the buzzer, and a purple from the key...

1st off serial #0W061474
2nd the problem that is happening is that the alarms for the oil pressure/water temp/drive oil level is not working... when you turn the key on there is a "beep" and the instruments work but when I ground the water temp switch on the thermostat housing

That will not generate an alarm. Those switches are just for the analog instruments. The alarm is generated by the ECU based on the inputs from the DIGITAL sensors, and grounding those will only generate a 'failed sensor' code, not an alarm.

or push the float down in the drive reservoir I do not get any alarm or "buzzer"... this engine was installed in a 1998 trophy 2352... does the vast Iboats community have any ideas on what the problem might be??...

The only way to generate an alarm is to unplug the 2 wires going to the oil bottle sensor and connect them together. The alarm generated by the ECU may not be a continuous beep you may be familiar with from non-MPI engines. I think low drive oil is just a couple of beeps each 2 minutes. And then only when the engine is running.

Chris........
 
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bman440440

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Nope. All alarms are generated by the ECU, from digital signal inputs from sensors around the engine, including the drive lube monitor bottle...

00d60057a4c1007a2111a672f49d1aef.jpg


and all the "warning" systems worked like normal I.E. push down the low drive oil float, ground temp switch, ground oil pressure switch and it would sound the horn like normal (with key on engine not running or running)... so I'm at a loss :confused:

so guy's ya have any more suggestions for me? please?? :D
 

Fun Times

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Bman, That should be because you went from a 1998 engine model/design to an 2008 (or 2004?) engine model design plus I'll guess you went from carbureted to MPI too?? With either year you have, 'You have a 555 ECM... That is if they are both MPI's.
That connector plug you show became needed in 2006+ year models.

The warning horn system works a bit different between the two designs including the testing features of these types of sensors / senders / switches.

The grounding methods of years past doesn't apply exactly the same to the newer MPI engine sensors like they did on the discrete switches of years past like you've tested/grounded out before....Even the drive oil bottle is slightly different but is the only one that holds about the same concept....As mentioned by Chris the warning horn system runs through the ECM before hitting the horn device at the helm.

To sound the warning horns typically all you'd need to do is unplug the MPI digital sensors for the engine coolant, Oil pressure, etc....The coolant sensor should have a 2 wire plug connector with a yellow and black wire running to it.

With you mentioning that you hear a warning horn beep when you first turn the key on ought to be indicating that the warning horn system is working correctly because that is the self-test feature the ECM does at each key-up as long as you/the system has enough time to rest/re-set itself between key-ups....If you key up multiple times to soon/fast the system may not keep up and stop beeping for a bit of time but if you give it roughly half a minute or so between key-ups the system should self test and you'd hear the horn each time.

Another way for a service tech to check the horn activation system would be if say they (or you) had the correct marine scan tool then they/you could preform a self 10 or so second test of the warning horn system that sounds the horn indicating if it's connected correctly or not, etc. etc..

The following link should be a general guide of Merc's warning horn meanings for most stock engine models...In it you will notice the first section of your engine model/serial number ranges say (Single beep at start up: Normal test horn: No Action Required: No action required)

MERCRUISER HORN WARNING SYSTEMS

Hope this helps some.
 

bman440440

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Bman, That should be because you went from a 1998 engine model/design to an 2008 (or 2004?) engine model design plus I'll guess you went from carbureted to MPI too?? With either year you have, 'You have a 555 ECM... That is if they are both MPI's.
That connector plug you show became needed in 2006+ year models.

The warning horn system works a bit different between the two designs including the testing features of these types of sensors / senders / switches.

The grounding methods of years past doesn't apply exactly the same to the newer MPI engine sensors like they did on the discrete switches of years past like you've tested/grounded out before....Even the drive oil bottle is slightly different but is the only one that holds about the same concept....As mentioned by Chris the warning horn system runs through the ECM before hitting the horn device at the helm.

To sound the warning horns typically all you'd need to do is unplug the MPI digital sensors for the engine coolant, Oil pressure, etc....The coolant sensor should have a 2 wire plug connector with a yellow and black wire running to it.

With you mentioning that you hear a warning horn beep when you first turn the key on ought to be indicating that the warning horn system is working correctly because that is the self-test feature the ECM does at each key-up as long as you/the system has enough time to rest/re-set itself between key-ups....If you key up multiple times to soon/fast the system may not keep up and stop beeping for a bit of time but if you give it roughly half a minute or so between key-ups the system should self test and you'd hear the horn each time.

Another way for a service tech to check the horn activation system would be if say they (or you) had the correct marine scan tool then they/you could preform a self 10 or so second test of the warning horn system that sounds the horn indicating if it's connected correctly or not, etc. etc..

The following link should be a general guide of Merc's warning horn meanings for most stock engine models...In it you will notice the first section of your engine model/serial number ranges say (Single beep at start up: Normal test horn: No Action Required: No action required)

MERCRUISER HORN WARNING SYSTEMS

Hope this helps some.


ok... I guess my next question is what temp will the alarm go off? the reason for all of this is that when the boat was getting flushed on the hose after a saltwater trip the muffs got knocked off the engine and by the time it was noticed the engine was at 200 degrees +/- and no warning horn... I know the impeller is going to need to be replaced... after that happened we wanted to see what the deal was with the warning system... so I tried to check the 3 systems and could not get the horn to sound... so it looks like the system is working but what temp should it go off?
thanks for all you guy's help so far!!
 

achris

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The temperature sensor senses the temperature of the water it's in. If there's no water in the system (because the muffs fell off) then the sensor can only get hot by conduction of heat through the thermostat housing it is screwed into. And that can take a while, by which time the engine is way hotter than indicated... If the engine was at 200 with no water then the sensor was probably only seeing 150... Or thereabouts....

Chris...
 

bman440440

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The temperature sensor senses the temperature of the water it's in. If there's no water in the system (because the muffs fell off) then the sensor can only get hot by conduction of heat through the thermostat housing it is screwed into. And that can take a while, by which time the engine is way hotter than indicated... If the engine was at 200 with no water then the sensor was probably only seeing 150... Or thereabouts....

Chris...

hmmm... that makes sense... but the dash gauge was showing 200... I do understand that there are 2 "sensors" but they are next to each other... so "in theory" shouldn't the alarm have gone off? forgive me if I'm missing something... I don't deal with the "computer controlled" all that often. :sorry:
 

QBhoy

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Did you get all the wiring harness that would have been with the mpi engine ?
 

QBhoy

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Ok. Just wondering if the trouble is an old system trying to mate with a new mpi alarm and monitor system.
 
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