Please Help! Boat won't accelerate past certain point

Nina215

Cadet
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
19
I'm going to try to summarize. Bought a project boat 4 yrs ago. 1999 Sea Ray 215 Express Cruiser with Merc 5.0, 2 bbl Mercarb, Thunderbolt V ignition. 130 hours. Sat forever.

First year (2015), I replaced or rebuilt everything in the fuel system. Removed, dumped, and cleaned fuel tank, reinstalled. New anti-siphon valve, new fuel pump, new water separator, rebuilt carb, cleaned spark arrestor. Oil change. New plugs, wires. Outdrive was gone over, new gimbal bearing, new bellows, new trim sensors, new shift cable, new prop. Pressure tested.

Went for test drive at end of that season and it ran fine.

Next season (2016), had it in dry dock all season. New cap, rotor, and timed (to the best of our ability without an external tach). Ran fantastically. Started right up, idled smooth. The only odd thing that ever happened was that after cruising at maybe 3500 rpm for like 15 min straight, I'd get one random backfire. Then after another 15 min or so, again. But at slower speeds, it never occurred.

Winterized at the end of the season. The boat had marine (non-ethanol fuel) and it was almost empty when I stored it for winter. Added Stabil, fogged the carb, put antifreeze in.

Was too busy in 2017 for it so it remained winterized.

This year, I have it in a dry dock again at a marina. Had no problems bringing it out of storage and started right up. Sounds great, idles smooth. I had to put a new prop on because I hit 2 logs in 2016 and bent the old one. I put on what the sea ray prop chart recommends for my boat/engine which is 14.25 x 21. Filled it with marine fuel as soon as I put it in the water.

Went out for maiden voyage of the year and it would only go up to 2200 rpm or so. Wouldn't get up on plane. Throttle would continue to advance with no response or change in boat's cruising. No backfiring, no sputtering, no stalling, just nothing. Just bogged down at 2200 and stays there.

For the last few weeks, I've been trying to figure it out but nothing I do makes a difference. Here is a list of what I've done:

1. Checked choke which seems to stick open (not closed). I've played with it to try to free it but as soon as it's back on the boat, it is hard to move again. But seems to stick open, not closed. I've looked at it while on a test drive and it is indeed open.

2. Removed carb, took apart, sprayed with carb cleaner, blew through jets to make sure they weren't clogged. Checked filter in the carb.

3. Removed and dumped fuel from water separator, it was fine. Replaced with new water separator anyway.

4. Checked for clogged fuel tank vent, it was fine.

5. Pulled plugs and found them to be dry fouled with a lot of carbon build up despite them only having about 10-15 hours on them. Replaced with new NGK plugs, properly gapped.

6. Replaced ignition coil.

7. Replaced the only fuel hose, even though it looked fine.

8. Checked cap and rotor, still look brand new inside.

9. Motor oil is not overfilled.

I'm waiting my turn with the boat mechanic but trying to do whatever I can in the meantime. I want them to definitely look over the carb and readjust it, as well as the shift cable which doesn't always go into neutral when the shifter clicks into neutral.

Any ideas?

After changing the ignition coil a couple days ago, the tach suddenly tells me higher RPMs than I know we're going. Now it says we're getting up to 3200 or so RPM but I know we're not. It still feels and sounds the same as before. It also says I'm idling faster than I was before. It is showing idle at around 1100 or so when I know we're only going around 700.
 

Bonanzadave

Cadet
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Messages
14
Now that your familiar with the inside of the carb Id buy a mercarb kit from mikes carbs and just rebuild it.

Also, my 3.0l had a stone (yes, a porous stone) filter in the bottom of the fuel pump. After changing that to a paper replacement and the carb rebuild she runs like a top !
 

Nina215

Cadet
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
19
I did rebuild the carb 3 years ago. I did everything to the exact specs. And the kit came with the plastic filter which is still clean as a whistle. And it ran great until now. I then took the carb apart a week ago and cleaned it and it looked great. I made sure I could blow through all the jets and ports and there were no blockages. I'm about ready to rebuild it again just because I'm out of ideas.

The prop that came with the boat was destroyed (dragged on the road). It was the original 14.25 x 21. My grandpa then gave me a brand new one that he had for his old boat, which was a 26'. It wasn't the correct size for the boat but it worked. I can't remember the exact size, I can check later. Then I hit two logs in 2016 and it got slightly bent. Figured I'd go ahead and buy the right size prop which is what I got now.

I'm wondering if this is a weak spark problem?
 

tacx

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 26, 2017
Messages
215
Just curious. How do you drag a prop on the road? Is there no skeg below the prop or was that also taken out?
 

Nina215

Cadet
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
19
I didn't. Bought it that way. The skeg was bent and the prop was destroyed. I purchased an empty lower unit case, had all the guts swapped over, pressure tested, and put the new prop on.
 

Rick Stephens

Admiral
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
6,118
Time to get a baseline. You don't know yet how this boat should run, since it never ran right for you. Get compression test numbers. An occasional backfire can be a stuck valve, or an ignition or timing issue. You also should check what gear ratio the drive is. It may be wrong for that boat, prop, and motor combination.
 

hoowahfun

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 1, 2016
Messages
186
Your backfiring issue sounds like you were running slightly too rich, as evidenced by the plug fouling.

For the prop, it sounds like it had a 14.25x21, then an unknown prop size that you hit on the logs, then back to a 14.25x21. Did you ever run it before with a 14.25x21? What you're describing could be caused by the wrong prop size or maybe even a spun hub.
 

Nina215

Cadet
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
19
Time to get a baseline. You don't know yet how this boat should run, since it never ran right for you. Get compression test numbers. An occasional backfire can be a stuck valve, or an ignition or timing issue. You also should check what gear ratio the drive is. It may be wrong for that boat, prop, and motor combination.

It ran great all 2016 season except for that random backfire. But I'd say that only happened maybe 3-4 times all summer. But most of my cruising was up river at idle speed due to a low bridge that would never open to let me out of the river. So I took a lot of river cruises instead. Had 2 mechanics look at it that year and both thought it sounded and ran great. If it was compression, would it be equally low on all cylinders? I'm asking because when I pulled the fouled plugs, they were all equally fouled. Also, the boat only has 155 hours. How can I check the gear ratio?
 

Nina215

Cadet
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
19
Your backfiring issue sounds like you were running slightly too rich, as evidenced by the plug fouling.

For the prop, it sounds like it had a 14.25x21, then an unknown prop size that you hit on the logs, then back to a 14.25x21. Did you ever run it before with a 14.25x21? What you're describing could be caused by the wrong prop size or maybe even a spun hub.

Correct, when I got the boat, it had the original 14.25 x 21, which was totally mangled so I could not run it that way. Then the one from my grandpa, I just checked and it is 14.5 x 17. Now back to a 14.25 x 21. I do not believe it is a spun hub since it is not revving up with a loss of power. It's just not revving up at all. It's only getting to maybe 2400 rpm and feeling boggy. Also, it does sound like it's missing at higher RPMs but not noticeable at idle or low RPMs. Starts and idles very smooth.
 

Nina215

Cadet
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
19
I just checked the gear ratio on the outdrive and it's hard to read but it looks like it says 1 628
 

Rick Stephens

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Aug 13, 2013
Messages
6,118
I just checked the gear ratio on the outdrive and it's hard to read but it looks like it says 1 628

Correct ratio for a 5.0L. I'd get compression, that way you know exactly where we are starting.

A cough through the carb can be what is referred to as a lean sneeze. Problem there is leaness can cause detonation, which can damage the engine. You mentioned disassembly and cleaning the carb, might be time to kit the carb. Pay particular attention to float level and double/triple check passages being absolutely open. Run heavy fishing line through them. The most common job that needs repeating is a carb rebuild. Never feel that it is an insult that someone suggests it needs doing again.
 

Nina215

Cadet
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
19
Correct ratio for a 5.0L. I'd get compression, that way you know exactly where we are starting.

A cough through the carb can be what is referred to as a lean sneeze. Problem there is leaness can cause detonation, which can damage the engine. You mentioned disassembly and cleaning the carb, might be time to kit the carb. Pay particular attention to float level and double/triple check passages being absolutely open. Run heavy fishing line through them. The most common job that needs repeating is a carb rebuild. Never feel that it is an insult that someone suggests it needs doing again.

I'm starting to think the same thing. Even though I rebuilt it with a kit a few years ago and it still looks clean, I'm running out of ideas. I think I'll just pay someone this time to do it. I just don't understand what could be so bad in it that would cause this when it was fine last season I ran it and it wasn't stored with ethanol. Nothing appears to be clogged. I verified that I was able to blow through all the passageways before reassembling it. It just sucks playing the waiting game for a mechanic. I'm going crazy now just because I want to know what on earth the problem is.
 

Nina215

Cadet
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
19
I just pulled the carb again. I found the reason that the choke is sticking open and is tight to operate is because the throttle cable is adjusted too far forward, which puts pressure on the idle screw which is up against the choke cam. As soon as I pull the throttle cable off the carb, the choke settings go to where they should and it's very easy to move. So I need to adjust the cable. But I don't think that would cause these other issues, right? I think this throttle cable has been like this all along. Me and my friend were playing with this choke 2 yrs ago because it wasn't right back then either.
 

TurtleTamer

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
143
Sounds like your float level is off-spec or the needle/seat is sticking. Carb can be clean enough to eat out of but that doesn't mean it's set up just right.
 

Rick Stephens

Admiral
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
6,118
A: Carb rebuilds are perfect jobs for Anal OCD types.

B: Unless you get compression numbers you will never know if there is something else wrong.


Done pontificating :^)
 

Nina215

Cadet
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
19
Got the carb apart again and soaking in carb cleaner. The float drop was fine. At most, it was maybe 1mm off. It's hard to say because the replacement floats don't have the index marks. For that reason, I'm going to go back to the original float which I still have which looks fine. Went and got a new rebuild kit today.
 

Nina215

Cadet
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
19
Well, just wanted to update. I'm pretty sure I found the problem. Haven't test driven yet but I pulled the anti-siphon valve off and I could barely blow through it. I was hesitant to remove it because it's only 3 yrs old and I don't use ethanol fuel. But I was stupid and used teflon tape when I installed it and I think that's what plugged it.
 

Rick Stephens

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Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
6,118
Well, just wanted to update. I'm pretty sure I found the problem. Haven't test driven yet but I pulled the anti-siphon valve off and I could barely blow through it. I was hesitant to remove it because it's only 3 yrs old and I don't use ethanol fuel. But I was stupid and used teflon tape when I installed it and I think that's what plugged it.

Fingers crossed for you. Let us know how it turns out.
 

tank1949

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Apr 4, 2013
Messages
1,767
It seems to me that you should be running a 15"x15" prop. But, I don't know lower units true ratio. I had a 22 open fisherman with a 350 4 barrel and it had 15" x 16" prop. It ran fine! OD ration was around 1.5 (cant remember exactly). Your plugs' conditions tell me fuel is main culprit. Good luck!
 
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