Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

[88seville100]

Ok heres a little background first. The motor is an 87 225. E225TXCUB. So far I have replaced head gaskets, fuel pump, fuel water separator, and rebuilt all 6 carbs. When I bought this boat about 2 months ago it wasnt running at all. So I did all these things to get it going. Now it runs, just not very well.

I can get the engine started pretty quick, and it will idle great all day. If I rev it in neutral it also sounds good. Then I put it in gear and take off. It does ok in the low rpm, but then when I put the throttle down it takes off like it wants to go to redline, but then will get stuck around 3500 or so and slowly start to come down in rpm. If I leave the throttle all the way up it will start to surge. The rpms will drop and try to pick back up. Then after a little of this they will just start to drop more.

Then if I let it run at low rpm for a little more I can floor it and get it back to around 3500. At one point it almost hit 4000 before it started dropping again.

Do you guys have any idea what this could be? I dont think its the fuel system as just about all the components are brand new.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

Does the 87 have the SLOW system?
Does it shake at 3500 or run fairly smooth.?

If its pre-SLOW, have you tried ?
pumping the bulb to add fuel pressure?
Hit the choke when it bogs?

Is the ignition advance working properly ?
throttle plates opening fully, all at 90 degs WOT?
Tank vent clear?

 

[88seville100]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

I am not sure if this engine has the SLOW system. How do I check for that?

I have tried pumping the bulb and that didnt change anything. The bulb stays firm the whole time. It may get a little soft but nothing unusual. I have tried the choke at higher rpm in neutral and that bogs down the engine as it should.

I just checked the timing advance now and it is working. It is advancing to 18 degrees as it should.

Butterflies are also opening all the way.

As far as tank vent I am not positive how to check that. The bulb never collapsed while the engine is running. But I did unscrew the gas cap just to eliminate the possibility of the vent. The same problem occurred with the gas cap off.

Any other thoughts of what could be going on here?

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

If it is a 87' it does not have the slow option. That came out in 88' and on.

I have to ask about when you redid your carbs. How far "in" did you get? Did you take them completely apart and clean them and then put new kits in them? Did you clean the mains in the bottom of the bowls and teh feed tube going up? Seeing you replaced the water separator and fuel pump, how about the inline fuel filter?

Also when you put everything back together did you do a linc and synic? As per the factory service manual? You have a service manual?

Have you confirmed you timing? Both at idle and WOT? The WOT timing can be checked using the Joe Reves method. Extremely reliable method.

Id this only happening when it is cold? Or is this only happening when the motor get's warm? Also have you done a compression check of each cylinder? By chance is your power packs or coils not grounded properly due to corosion. When at higher speed/loads it take more current flow to produce more spark. Might want to clean and check thoses connctions.

Also is your timmer base moving freely. They should spin/move with out any hesitation. On older motors the grease/lube tends to get sticky. Might want to clean and re lube timer base. Also the spring "cigar tube" that adjusts/connects the timer base to the throttle linkage. All needs to be moving freely. Old grease gets gummy over time.

Lastly are you running the original prop on the boat? Or have you reproped with this new motor? They don't use the high end pitch props like you would think they would. MIght be too much pitch if you reproped. Also the height of the mounting of the motor makes a big difference on these motors too. The top cavitation plate needs to be just at the water surface. Any lower and you are loading the motor with back pressure it needs to over come to run. Might want to check that as well.

What condition was this motor in when you got it? Was it together in one peice with the prop on it? Mine came in three to five pieces. It was a basket case. It runs great but needed a ton of work to get running good.

 

[Big flop]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

It sounds like one or more carb's are running
out of gas. A blockage behind needle and seat,
Bad internal fuel line?
Try removing main jet plug in the bottom
of the carb float bowl, and pump the primer
bulb. Do this one at a time and compare each carb
fuel flow and see if one isn't flowing good?
Did you set float levels when you did the carbs?

 

[88seville100]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

When I rebuilt the carbs I took them all the way apart. Took the bowl off the bottom, took out all 3 jets and soaked them in cleaner, and replaced all the gaskets. I didnt have a compressor so couldnt blow everything out. I just cleaned as best I could with a rag and carb cleaner. I set the bowl to be level when hanging upside down. The carbs on this motor come off without disturbing any linkages so no I did not do a link and sync.

I did check timing at WOT. It was 18 degrees. Temperature does not seem to matter. The problem happens all the time. I have not checked power pack grounds yet. I will look at those. Do I have to pull the packs off to check that?

What is the timmer base your referring too? I moved the timing advance lever back and forth and it does move. And the timing is advancing with throttle position.

I have no idea if this is the original prop or not. It was installed on the motor when I bought the boat. But there was another prop in one of the boats compartments. So I am not sure which is supposed to be on there. But I havent changed it.

And yes the motor was in one piece when I bought the boat.

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

The power pack grounds are a black wire that comes from the power pack itself and has a round connector on the end of it. Some times it get corroded. Also check the wire it self that goes into the connector. It could have corrosion as well. Yes you might have to take off the power packs to find the wire. Normally they are in one of the two bolts that hold the power packs on to the motor.

The timer base is up under the fly wheel. Not the startor. The stator is the one that provides/generates the electricity. The timer base in under the stator. It is what is hooked to the throttle linkages. You might want to just pop off you linage to the timer and try moving the timer base around by hand. It should move freely.

By chance you have an air leak some where in the fuel lines to the carbs? A minor one?

 

[88seville100]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

OK so I went outside to clean the power pack grounds, and here is what I found. Underneath both power packs there is a plastic cover that covers a bunch of wires. On the right side there are 4 yellow wires, 2 per screw. Then 2 grey in the middle, and then 2 purple on the left. Well itlooked like there is another spot for more wires all the way to the left. So i started looking around and found 2 more orange wires that had been removed and taped off? Do these go on that spot on the left? I assume so. I installed them there and hopefully can test it out again tmrw. Do you guys agree with this? I have posted pics so hopefully you can understand better.

This is where those 2 orange wires go. Its under the flywheel on the front side.

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

OK the yellow wires (one pure yellow, and one yellow with gray stripe) are for you charging system, the gray wires are your tachometer, the purple is warning horn (ground I think). The orange wires are not showing up on the schematic for that year of motor. Possibly a other year motor stator retro fitted to this application. I would not hook up. Make sure they are not grounding out on the block. Could those orange wires use to be red?

Do you have a working tach on this boat?

Your last pic show the lickage on the left hand side of the pic. The trigger is in the center of the four mounting towers for the stator. Make sure if has free movement. Seeing you have confirmed that you are getting 18 degree, I would say you are.

What kind of boat is it and what pitch of prop are you running. What's the pitch of the other prop?

Also when you cleaned your carbs, are you absolutely sure every passage is perfectly clean?

Also do you have a anti shiphon valve still in the tank? You say the bulb does not go flat when you are driving. So I would assume there is no restiction before the bulb. You also say you changed the fuel pump with a new one. Same one?

If it is not fuel then it's either spark or compression. You check compression and Spark? What's the compression numbers and the what distance did the spark jump across? The manual states 7/16" with a bright blue spark.

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

 

[88seville100]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

Yes I do have a working tach on the boat. I have the orange wires hooked up right now on that last spot. I guess I will disconnect them tomorrow.

And yes the timing advance does have free movement and is set correctly.

The boat is a 24' center console Robalo. I am not sure what pitch the prop is. How can I check on the prop details?

I am pretty sure I got the carbs pretty clean. I dont think they are the issue. But I suppose it is a possibility.

I am going to try again tomorrow with the fuel hose running into my portable tank. That will eliminate all fuel lines and tank issues that could be there.

Did not check spark and compression yet. That will also be another job for tomorrow. I will report back with those numbers. Can low compression cause this issue?

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

Yep low compression in one cylinder will deffinately cause this, or really low compression in all the cylinders. These motors are low compression already, them being loopers and stuff. Normal is around 80-110. Those are good numbers. But the real numbers you need to watch is the split between your lowest and highest readings No more than 10. 15 is in need of rebuild.

As to prop pitch. Normally on the inside hub when the nut is or on the side between the blades. I run my 225 on a 1991 Bayliner Trophy 2002WA. My prop is a 15" dia x 15" Pitch. Anything more and I do not get the top end speed or RPM. Over loads the motor. The 14.3" x 17P only rev'd out at 4600rpms with a very slushy mid range.

As to spark check, if you have a couple of weak coils, it will do it as well. I had three that would run but when I sparked tested them they failed. Would not even junp. But with a spark plug they would show spark. SO that is another area you need to check.

Let us know how you checks are, interesteds to find out.

 

[clanton]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

The orange wire comes from a power coil on the stator. This stator is for later model engine. this coil make power for the logic in the power pack for S.L.O.W, and Quick Start. Stator ahould work fine, if you verify timing at idle and 5000 Rpms. Checking timing at 5000 rpms, should be done with test prop in water. I would verify correct timer, power packs, and do a voltage output test on the stator, timer, and power pack.

 

[88seville100]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

So do you guys think I should leave the orange wires off? I did verify timing with the engine in the water. It was still on the trailer but the prop was under water.

If the problem is compression what are my options to fix that? I know these powerheads are very expensive, and so are the rebuild kits. So what do you guys think I should do with a low compression motor.

 

[88seville100]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

Ok so did more testing today and here is what I found.

First was spark test. I set the tester to 7/16" gap, plugged spark plug wire into tester, and clipped other end of tester onto cylinder head bolt to hold it in place. I then cranked the motor from the solenoid. I got a good spark from maybe 2 out of the 6 wires. All the rest would not jump the full gap. I could close up the gap a good bit and get most of them to jump the smaller gap. The 2 that seemed ok were the middle cylinders on each side. #3 and #4 I think? Does this sound like a power pack or coil problem? Im tempted to go buy 1 new coil and see if I can get good spark on every cylinder by swapping that good coil around.

Ok next test was a compression test. Every cylinder was very low. I warmed up the engine first. Then took out all the plugs. Hooked up the tester, and gave each cylinder a few good hits. The starboard side was all around 45, and port side were between 45 and 50. I tried opening up the throttle, no difference. I even tried putting all the plugs back in and testing the cylinders like that. Same thing.

I know this compression is very very low, but I really think the rpm problem may have been caused by the weak spark. The way the engine was running up and then kind of bogging, then it would surge like it wanted to pick back up in rpms, but something was stopping it. It makes sense that if the spark is on and off it would surge like that.

What do you guys think? Should I try to fix the spark and get this thing going?

 

[Big flop]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

Try swapping the center coils since there
firing good?
I see a head gasket in the red bucket
did you have the heads off?
Maybe your compression gauge
is not right?
Swap coils and plug wires

 

[88seville100]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

Yea the coil swapping idea hit me after I came inside and already cleaned up. I will have to give that a try tomorrow.

And yes I had the heads off. Kind of a funny story. When I was spraying sea foam into the cylinders the red straw fell of the can and into the spark plug hole. The only way to get it out was to pull the head off. So I changed both head gaskets while I was at it.

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

When you had the heads off did you check them for flatness? Could be jumping cylinder into water jacket.

So you did do a seafoam decarb? Spray cylinders and run a tank of gas premixed like the direction here of this site say to? If you did that then you either need to get a different guage if you do not trust you compression guage or go straight to rebuild. If you have no scoring in the cylinders, you could be looking at just a deglaze and reringing it. Thats all I did to mine. But I measured the cylinders first.

As to coils/power packs, just swap the one working to the locations that are not. If they jump with the working coils then it coils.

But I would not sink any more money into this until you get this compression up. To where it needs to be.

To check a head for flatness either a machinist ruler or a piece of glass ad a fealler guage. I think the speck is 0.004" max. but you can clean this up with a couple of pieces of sand paper and glass. Just rub the heap on the sandpaper that is glued/taped to glass. Do figure "8's" with the head when you sand it.

 

[88seville100]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

Ok so this engine is confusing me now. So yesterday I was testing the spark again, and found at least 2 coils that were getting good spark. I swapped a good one around to the cylinders that were weak and the strong spark followed. That told me the coils were bad. So I went out and bought 4 new coils. I put one of the new ones on and spark was still weak. I swapped it to where the good coil was and still weak. Then I tried the one that was strong earlier and now that was weak. I couldnt get a strong spark on any cylinder, new or old coils. What is going on here?

Im guessing either the stator or powerpacks right? But I dont want to go broke throwing parts at this thing, and those parts are not cheap. I did order a DVA for my multimeter so I can test the stator. Anything I can do in the meantime?

 

[Big flop]

Re: Evinrude 225 getting stuck around 3000 rpm

The metal band in the rubber boot
that snap on the coil post's
(orange primary wire)
are they clean?
Coil mounting post clean for good
grounds? Pack grounds clean & tight.
All ignition plugs clean and A good fit ?
(the stator, timer base plugs)
Cranking at a good RPM