No spark 73 Johnson 115 driving me nutz

[maybe368]

Hi guys, it's been a while since I have posted here, but here goes. Like the title says no spark. I have followed the cdi trouble shooting about 20 times and I am still confused. The engine was running fine on last use, and 2 months later no spark. My question is, how many volts ac should I have coming from under the flywheel? When I take the brown and brown and white wire off the power pack and read the voltage, I get 106 VAC, is this enough? When the wires are installed I only get something on the brown/yellow with test light, no spark. I have 5 different power packs and it is the same with all of them. Am I missing something. The engine spins plenty fast, but I took the plugs out to get it to spin faster, no change. I feel like 106 vac is not enough, but I cannot find anything to confirm this, what do you guys think? What am I missing. Also, fyi, the timing base and stator were replaced several years ago,but that was for a no charge situation, the engine started and ran fine, thank in advance...Mark

 

[Lewis1111]

Are you checking these with a DVA adapter in your multi-meter? If not you will be chasing your tail around quite a bit as it seems you have been.
Sometimes when you get to 'into' a diagnosis you feel like pulling your hair out maybe it's time to take a step back, have a beer and regroup.
Start at the plug wires and work your way towards the coils/power pack and then stator and trigger. You've already got the CDI troubleshooting guide which is a great resource.

 

[racerone]

Some no " money spent " checks.----Pull the starter apart.----Inspect battery cables.----Load test your battery.-----Pull " black / yellow " stripe wire off the pack and test for spark.

 

[maybe368]

I have a real good fluke meter, it is automatic, do I need a DVA? I kind of thought not, but if you guys say yes, I will get one. Problem is that the boat is in Mexico and access to specialty stuff is limited. I have gone through the whole Dx regimin several times.Everything from the big red connector forward is eliminated by a stevens gc-96 remote starter. How much voltage should be put out by the system? Thanks...Mark

 

[maybe368]

It is a fluke 113...

 

[maybe368]

What I really need to know is if 106 volts ac coming from under the flywheel is enough, measured from brown wire to brown/yellow while disconnected from the power pack. If it is enough, then the power pack is bad, right? If I am completely off base, please let me know. As I said before, the rectifier tested good, as did the stator and timing base. The control box and harness are out of the system. I know that there is no spark from any cylinder and the only voltage that I get at all is at the brown/yellow wire when everything is connected, checked with a test light and the meter...Mark

 

[maybe368]

Some no " money spent " checks.----Pull the starter apart.----Inspect battery cables.----Load test your battery.-----Pull " black / yellow " stripe wire off the pack and test for spark.

While I have not done all of those things, the engine spins plenty fast enough, there seems to be no issue with the starting system. I believe that the power pack is bad, I just need someone to tell me if my logic is correct. I have cleaned all of the grounds that I have found...Mark

 

[oldboat1]

https://www.outboardignition.com/page40.asp Looks like 150v from the stator, minimum.

 

[maybe368]

Ok I just watched 2 vids on youtube from a dangarmarine, 1 about a homemade dva and another about the cdi testing procedure. Soooo, I will make me one back home and bring it down in January, when I come back. This of course means that I won't be able to buy any bad components until the next trip down, oh well that's life...Mark

 

[maybe368]

Thank you oldboat1, So I was onto something right? Does that mean the stator is bad? Or could it be something else? ...Mark

 

[oldboat1]

think you need a DVA meter to confirm.

 

[Faztbullet]

You cant test ignition with a dang test light no matter what Youtube says. 1) check cranking RPM 2) check stator output 3) Check timer output 4) Install new pack if all checks out

 

[racerone]

Apparently 5 different packs have been tried ?

 

[maybe368]

Yes 5 packs were tried. My friend here has a meter with a max peak button, does that mean that it will read the max voltage? I have a hard time believing that all 5 packs are bad. I am headed back north this week, so I will get a dva, and I think that I will bring down a spare 115 that I have in my shed. It was also working the last time that it was shut down. I can then scavenge parts from it, to see what works. If it works I will go with it. If not I should at least be able to properly Dx the problem. I really appreciate the help. It just kills me that it ran fine when shut down, is there a clue as to which component could fail on shutdown?...Mark.

 

[F_R]

A DVA meter or adapter rectifies the AC output and displays the DC result as a peak value. That is why nobody can tell you what to expect as an ACV from the stator.

 

[Tim Frank]

Five power packs?
IF.... 5 known-good packs have truly gone south, I would be looking at the ancillary wiring in the motor....grounds especially. Bad wiring can place excess loads on components and cause premature and repeated failures.

That is a 40+ year old motor with wiring of the same age....I had a '68 Jiohnson 55 HP that started having lots of ignition issues in the 1990s. Repeated component failures. Replaced all the internal wiring and it ran beautifully for another 10 years. Insulation breaks down...hard-to-see corrosion happens (in Mexico after a storage period that would be my first suspicion)....and other age-related issues.

As a few posters have suggested there are some basic and FREE checks that can be done.

I know you are convinced that the starter is fine since it "turns over plenty fast", but it is worth actually measuring that.
There is a threshold in the specs for minimum starting RPM and if you are below that a;; bets are off.

 

[maybe368]

I will try that,but it is turning as fast as it ever did. So,if I understand you correctly, the only thing that an mva is telling me is the resulting dc voltage after it has gone through the rectifier? Wouldn't that only affect the charging system? Also,if the reading that I am getting at the brown and brown and yellow wires (disconnected from the PP), 106 volts ac is probably accurate? If so, it could be high resistance in the wiring, the stator or the timing base? Is anything that I assume accurate? or should I just kill myself? (kidding), thanks for all of the help...Mark PS the minimum voltage is 150 volt ac...

 

[Willyclay]

That is a 40+ year old motor with wiring of the same age....I had a '68 Jiohnson 55 HP that started having lots of ignition issues in the 1990s. Repeated component failures. Replaced all the internal wiring and it ran beautifully for another 10 years. Insulation breaks down...hard-to-see corrosion happens (in Mexico after a storage period that would be my first suspicion)....and other age-related issues.

Ditto Tim's input with my 1968 Johnson 100hp. Forum Guru Joe Reeves told me OMC changed wire suppliers for 1968 and it took many years for the bad insulation problems to show up so your 1973 model is probably suffering the same issue. Good luck!

 

[racerone]

Report ohm readings.-------# 1 Brown to brown / yellow is ?--------# 2 One of the brown to ground is ?-----# 3 the sensor coils read what in ohms ?

 

[maybe368]

I will do that. To be clear I had 4 extra power packs, I had no idea if they worked or not, I just put in all of to see if the PP was the problem, they are either no good, or not the problem. The one thing that happened is that 2 of them show current on the brown/yellow contact, 1 of them showed current on the brown contact and three of them showed no current on any contact. For what it's worth the one that was installed when it failed show some melting of the contact on the #3 black/white wire. I thought I had found my problem.

Ohms: brn to brn/yellow 614 ohms

brn to grnd 0 ohms/OL Brn/yellow to grnd 0 ohms/OL

sensor 1.6 ohms I am assuming that the sensor coils are the 2 yellow wires on the contact strip, let me know if that is wrong, thanks a million...Mark Edit: one other thing, as I said earlier all of the wiring forward of the big red connector is eliminated by my remote starter. The timer base and the stator were replaced with new around 10 years ago and the wires are in excellent shape. I have cleaned all of the grounds that I can find...