89 Johnson no power at WOT

[The Great Pre-Tender]

Hi Guys,

I have a 89 johnson 60hp (E60TLCE....my best guess at model) that has no power at WOT. sounds like it has a misfire.
At first i thought it was going into S.L.O.W but now im not sure why its running rough with no power.

Ive replaced the water pump, thermostat, temp sensor and did the pee tube relocation per NoEcm tutorial (Thanks btw)
I also checked the motor while running with an infared gun and it doesnt get hot at all.

While running WOT, i pushed the key in and it bogs/shuts off unless i let go.

Pumping the ball doesnt help. The fuel filter is new and the tank and fuel line are as of last year.

The tac doesnt work so i replaced the rectifier even though the old one checked out after a look in my service manual. Also worth mentioning is the battery wasnt showing any more than 12.5 volts at the terminal with motor running and without(so i assume it wasnt charging it)

The Stator looks like its giving me continuity as opposed to the 1.3ohms resistance its supposed to give when taken from the two wires but when i unplug the red plug with all the pins the motor runs by itself.... I dont know if that means anything but i think it means the stator is working.

I used a Spark plug tester that connects between the plug and the wire. It lights up as i turned the key in the ignition(havent run it with it inline). Also the plugs are new.

Sometimes when the motor is running it shuts off and is hard to get started, I have to put it in neutral and gas all the way open and then it starts up in a few seconds.

Also after checking the spark plugs they appear black and it doesnt seem to be running lean, also confirmed with the choke at wot bogging the motor.

My question is... what should i check next. Does anyone have any inklings?

I know its simple, just fuel spark and air but im new at this, hopefully someone brighter than me can help.

 

[211libwtfo]

Compression?

 

[The Great Pre-Tender]

Compressions good, I should have prefaced this by saying two weeks ago i took it out and it ran fine for the first hour then all the sudden it dropped off into the problem im currently having.

Also with it in neutral it revs up fine and in gear out of the water. Sounds fine and sounds like its going to full rpm, cant tell cause tac is not working but definitely way better than when under load.

 

[Tnstratofam]

Sounds like either dirty carbs, bad fuel pump, or issue with fuel lines or primer bulb. I had a similar problem with my outboard. Turned out the float bowls and jets were gunked up with crud from sitting before I got the boat. Cleaned the carbs and replaced the fuel lines and fuel pump and primer bulb for good measure. Took care of the problem. Oh and I also cleaned my fuel tanks. ( Portable 6 gallon ones so easy enough to do for me)

Don't forget the water separator and anti siphon valve as they can both get dirty and stop fuel flow too.

Oh and I had a primer bulb that was less than 2 seasons old fail on me. They are cheaply made these days.

 

[The Great Pre-Tender]

Where would the water separator be? I dont see it mentioned in the manual.

I was leaning towards an air leak in the lines or clogged high speed jets. So its good to see that im not the only one thinking fuel issue.

 

[Tnstratofam]

Not all boats have a water separator installed. I was only mentioning it because some do. An air leak could case your problem I guess. I've also had leaks at my tank fittings where I could run fine on one tank but not another. That always makes for an interesting day Doing fuel tank repairs on the water.

 

[ob]

Sounds like you losing spark to me. Insure that timer base under flywheel moves from idle stop to full advance stop smoothly without sticking. You can perform this with engine not running and just placing in gear while spinning prop to shift and advance the throttle lever from neutral to wide open and back to neutral. If all seems good there,I'd take a close inspection of the stator and timer base under the flywheel with a good light and look for any signs of black goooey substance oozing from the stator windings. This would indicate the stator is beginning to melt down and would need replacement. Also take a good close look at the coils for each cylinder for cracks in the case. Otherwise you could perform a spark test at cranking speed and insure each lead will jump a 7/16" - 1/2" gap with a crisp snap of blue spark. Yellow spark indicates weak ignition.

 

[The Great Pre-Tender]

oh ok, had me alittle concerned i was missing a vital component. The tank i got last year is a 12 gallon but i will definitely try changing it and seeing if it changes things.

The only think that has me wondering if its fuel related is when its at WOT and i push the key in to activate the choke, if it wasnt getting fuel then it would come to life and not bog down.

ill go pick up some fuel line just in case and replace it all.

Im sure that had you scratching your head, how to drive the boat and hold your finger over the crack.

 

[Tnstratofam]

I'm lucky I have 2 6 gallon fuel tanks on board our SS. Definitely verify you are not having any issues with your timing advance or stator and coils. Don't start ( Like I have in the past ) chasing fuel issues until you verify you have good spark. Throwing parts at the wrong problem can get expensive quick.

 

[The Great Pre-Tender]

Hey OB,

I will definitely do all of that.
I think i have already checked the timer base inadvertently when i put the lower unit back on after the water pump replacement, I rotated the prop and shifted to into forward all the way and then rotated the prop and shifted to reverse? it was all smooth

Ill take a look at the stator and the coils tomorrow and get back to you guys, thanks for all the help.

Do i need to take off the flywheel to properly inspect the stator or will i be able to tell from the bottom that is visible?

 

[ob]

Sometimes you can see from the bottom without removing flywheel and sometimes not. Depends on the amount, if any of the gooey stuff that is actually the epoxy the windings are embedded in. Not sure what type of lanyard safety switch is on your models controls ,but you might want to check that as well. The older style had a rubber cap that held the button switch of the ignition ground circuit open but had a tendency to stretch out over time and caused intermittent loss of ignition. OMC at some point in the late 80's changed it to a fork style clip that was more rigid which held in on the ignition ground circuit button.

 

[spybot]

You said when the red plug is disconnected it runs by its self. Does it run normal when the plug is disconnected ??
As OB said i think it is losing spark, i think its your kill switch that is causing this. There is a black and yellow wire the runs from your controls to the engine. I would check that. It may be broken or the wire is chaffed some where. If you remove ie push it out the connector you can see if it makes a difference before you go trace the fault. Just confirm it is broken.
BUT YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STOP YOUR ENGINE BY THE KEY/KILL SWITCH !!
So make sure you have another way to stop the motor. Pull the plug leads or stuff a rag in the carbs to stop the air.
I have had a similar situation on a v4. Replaced CDis, Stator Timer base ect ect. Until i was told about the kill wire.

 

[Faztbullet]

Pack, flywheel or flywheel key.

 

[211libwtfo]

I’ve had that anti siphon valve act the same way on one of my boats. Do you open the vent on your fuel tank after your motor is running?

 

[racerone]

They all work " great " on a hose and sound really powerful.----Post the actual compression numbers taken with a good gauge.----Did you install a water pump kit with thermostat update parts ?----Checked for strong spark on the 3 leads ?----Checked for a cylinder sleeve out of position and blocking ports ?

 

[The Great Pre-Tender]

Racerone It ran great in the water prior to the day i had this problem arise. i can borrow a gauge and check it again to get actual numbers as i didnt write them down.

I install the water pump kit with updated thermostat parts. Spring, Thermostat, temp sensor, and relocated the pee tube to the top of the water sleeve.

How do i check for a cylinder sleeve out of position?

Im going to check for a blue spark tonight, I will keep yah advised.


211Libwtfo I open the vent on my tank prior to starting the engine and leave it open.

Spybot I disconnected the red plug and it ran the same, I didn't try and take it up on plane or to WOT. but when i re-plugged it back in, there was 1 one second surge and then ran the same.

The motor at idle sounds fine, it inst till i shift into forward under load and give it like 1/2 throttle that it seems to start misfiring/ running rough.

OB I have a fork style safety clip and when its off i dont get spark, when its on i get spark. Im going to test spark strength after work.

FaztBullet Im going to investigate the pack tonight but what are the possibilities for the flywheel and flywheel key. what should i be checking to see if either of those is faulty?

 

[The Great Pre-Tender]

Alright Guys, Ive got some updates.

I checked the cylinders, all 3 had a nice blue spark when i turn the key, i didnt check while the engine was running.
I checked the ignition coil secondary resistance and it was 222, 219, 218. the Spec is 275 +- 50 so they seem close. i couldnt get a primary resistance to show other than continuity(i think my multi-meter is not that accurate so im going to borrow one from work tomorrow).


The Stator was dry as a bone, no goooey bits at all.

I didnt see any cracks in any of the coils.

heres the interesting part.
All 3 of these spark plugs were put in new two weeks ago and run the same amount of time, but they all look different.

Im assuming this has something to do with fuel?

 

[ob]

Cylinder #3 plug is lean and hot for sure. Cylinder #1 looks a bit lean , And cylinder #2 looks nearly rich fouled. Removal and cleaning of all three carbs are in order before proceeding any further.. In your initial post you mentioned that holding in on the fuel primer button caused the engine to fall off if not released. Not sure if you tried just intermittingly bumping the primer button but continuously holding it in would tend to flood engine regardless of a fouled carburetor because of the volume of fuel it passes when open continuously. Anyway that's all moot at this point. Also when you say you had a nice blue spark on all three plug leads,I assume you meant that they all three jumped a 7/16" gap or better using an adjustable spark tester. Did they?

 

[Faztbullet]

Bring #1 to TDC an see where timing mark is.

 

[The Great Pre-Tender]

Yes siir, the gap i had was 3/8s and they all were blue, it was hard to capture the spark with my camera.

I would hold down the choke for a second or two. not just tapping it. should i try just tapping it?

Also ill look at putting it on tdc tonight and ill upload pictures as well as ill start breaking down the carbs tonight.