Tohatsu M40D2 3C8 new to me

Vintin

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
223
Just yesterday a new to me 40hp motor in almost mint condition. I downloaded a PDF version of the mfg. service manual and am seeking a print version. This is a short shaft motor with tilt and trim on a 1954 Feather Craft Vagabond.

I'm interested of course in firing it up but am waiting until I have the knowledge to check it out thoroughly so as not to cause damage. It has not been used much if at all during the past six years. Is the oil injection known to be of a good type and dependable? I've read the pdf manual on checking it out on an annual basis as suggested standard good motor maintenance. I don't have a test prop.
 

Attachments

  • photo299294.jpg
    photo299294.jpg
    865.7 KB · Views: 4

pvanv

Admiral
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
6,509
Where did you get a PDF of a Factory service manual for the M40D2? That has been out of print for decades; replaced by the 3-and 4-cylinder 2-stroke manual. Yes, the auto oiling system is very reliable. I take it this is a RC (remote) motor? No need for a test prop. You will want a tach to see whether you have the best pitch on the final installation.
 

Vintin

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
223
Where did you get a PDF of a Factory service manual for the M40D2? That has been out of print for decades; replaced by the 3-and 4-cylinder 2-stroke manual. Yes, the auto oiling system is very reliable. I take it this is a RC (remote) motor? No need for a test prop. You will want a tach to see whether you have the best pitch on the final installation.

The 3 and 4 cylinder 2 stroke manual is what I got. I was hoping for a manual on just this specific motor. I do have a tach installed but I've not started the motor yet and hope to be taking the boat out on the water in the next couple of days. Thanks for the info on the injection system as it is my main concern with firing it up. Yes, it is an RC motor.
 

pvanv

Admiral
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
6,509
Just make sure the oiling system is primed before starting. Or, you could start with 50:1 premixed fuel until the oil system primes.
 

Sea Rider

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
12,345
The best investment you can make to take the max out of that nice OB is to install a tach whether a dash or induction one. Then and only then can play correctly maximizing a OEM different prop pitch from currently delivered one to suit your boating requirements as usually will be loaded. It's a day/night experience.

Happy Boating
 

Vintin

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
223
Just make sure the oiling system is primed before starting. Or, you could start with 50:1 premixed fuel until the oil system primes.

Advice taken! I ran it off a three gallon portable tank yesterday mixed at 50/1. Smoked quite a bit and seemed to be getting double oil. The boat has a 15 gallon strapped in tank and I will mix that tank at 50/1 and mark the under cowling oil tank to monitor oil usage. Double oil is way better than no oil at all!
 

Vintin

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
223
The best investment you can make to take the max out of that nice OB is to install a tach whether a dash or induction one. Then and only then can play correctly maximizing a OEM different prop pitch from currently delivered one to suit your boating requirements as usually will be loaded. It's a day/night experience.

Happy Boating

Absolutely!

From what I gather this motor is rated to be run between 5,000 and 5,700 rpm. I will prop it so with the lightest load it is hitting 5,700 rpm.

I did notice that this same block when carbed, reeded and spark advanced to make 50hp that the suggested operating range is 5,150 to 5,850 rpm.

I am wanting to make the changes necessary to make this 40hp a 50hp but am in no hurry. For its first year I want to see good dependable operation out of it in its 40hp mode.

Input on these rpm ranges is greatly appreciated.

It ran like a top yesterday in my testing barrel. I drained the carbs, fuel lines, primer bulb and spin on filter of old fuel before running about a gallon of pre mixed fuel through it at about 2k rpm.

Click image for larger version  Name:	Tohatsu 40hp running 8-23-18 008.JPG Views:	1 Size:	1.31 MB ID:	10641855Click image for larger version  Name:	Tohatsu 40hp running 8-23-18 006.JPG Views:	1 Size:	1.15 MB ID:	10641856
 

pvanv

Admiral
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
6,509
You would need to change all 3 carbs to go to 50 hp. Pricey.
 

Vintin

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
223
You would need to change all 3 carbs to go to 50 hp. Pricey.

How pricey? Keep your eyes peeled for me if you would. Used of course.

Are there mid way steps short of replacing the whole carbs and intake manifold?

What is your opinion on fiber reeds? Not just for what minor improvements they may make but for engine protection should my motor every decide to swallow one.

I'm also in the market for a good stainless steel prop and suggestions are appreciated.
 

pvanv

Admiral
Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
6,509
No used carbs here at this time. Tohatsu isn't stocking them new. You will need to look around the net to find any used ones. If/when you find new ones, they run about $175-$222 each. There are three different carbs: Upper, Lower, and Middle.

No need for aftermarket reeds. The Factory Tohatsu reeds work better and last longer.

Why stainless? SS requires a little less pitch because they flex less... But the aluminum can help the hole shot, as they do flex a little.
 

Sea Rider

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
12,345
Wanted to go towards the 50 HP route myself with a very cheap 40 being offered. When checking both spare parts manual found out that there were more parts involved than changing just carbs and adjusting time advance for a proper 50 HP conversion, being too costly decided not to buy the engine and keep my current 30 HP.

Larger OB's are good to transport max number of passengers stated on transom's tech plate, if with much less, a small family, no need to go for a larger HP-OB. Just prop it right for min 2 up as solo boating is boaring for OB to run at least middle to max wot rpm range which is preferred. Achieves a faster hole shot with slight top end speed lose.

Have found that most if not all Tohatsu props factory delivered are over propped even for light applications, will need to go to at least one pitch down for OB to rev higher towards those mentioned ranges.

Other thing that can do to better the prop thrust is to sit OB at the sweet transom height spot, for that will need to make a wot test on flat calm water cond and check visually at which lower leg height is water flow passing by. Ideal is to skim right under the small horizontal upper plate.

Report pitch number stamped on prop, max wot rpm achieved with 2 up and lower leg's water flow passing by height...

Happy Boating
 

Vintin

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
223
No used carbs here at this time. Tohatsu isn't stocking them new. You will need to look around the net to find any used ones. If/when you find new ones, they run about $175-$222 each. There are three different carbs: Upper, Lower, and Middle.

No need for aftermarket reeds. The Factory Tohatsu reeds work better and last longer.

Why stainless? SS requires a little less pitch because they flex less... But the aluminum can help the hole shot, as they do flex a little.

Ouch. That is expensive. Kind of killing my desire to go that way but will still keep my eyes open.

I was thinking that a stainless prop would improve top end performance and reduce fuel usage at cruising speeds.

I'm not much on having a good hole shot. This boat and motor is going to be used mostly for cruising in the 25mph range and I'm looking for efficiency at those speeds and the best top end possible. I'm pretty familiar with various motors and their performance on the Feather Craft Vagabond model I'm running. Tops for this motor/boat combo is likely 34 or 35mph as seen with the OMC 40 and 50hp motors from the 1990's. I've got a 1998 40hp short shaft Johnson with tilt/trim on another Vagabond and I've seen 34mph gps. My Tohatsu prop gear ratio is 13:24 and the 40hp Johnson is 12:29 and is running with a Solas 12x17 aluminum prop. My Tohatsu 40 is running an 11x15. I've not run any numbers on prop slip calculators. but I've seen them around on the web.

Thanks for all of the help!

Dan
 

Vintin

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
223
Wanted to go towards the 50 HP route myself with a very cheap 40 being offered. When checking both spare parts manual found out that there were more parts involved than changing just carbs and adjusting time advance for a proper 50 HP conversion, being too costly decided not to buy the engine and keep my current 30 HP.

Larger OB's are good to transport max number of passengers stated on transom's tech plate, if with much less, a small family, no need to go for a larger HP-OB. Just prop it right for min 2 up as solo boating is boaring for OB to run at least middle to max wot rpm range which is preferred. Achieves a faster hole shot with slight top end speed lose.

Have found that most if not all Tohatsu props factory delivered are over propped even for light applications, will need to go to at least one pitch down for OB to rev higher towards those mentioned ranges.

Other thing that can do to better the prop thrust is to sit OB at the sweet transom height spot, for that will need to make a wot test on flat calm water cond and check visually at which lower leg height is water flow passing by. Ideal is to skim right under the small horizontal upper plate.

Report pitch number stamped on prop, max wot rpm achieved with 2 up and lower leg's water flow passing by height...

Happy Boating

This motor came on this boat and I've only had them a few days. I got lucky on cavitation height as it is right even with the bottom of the hull. This is a 15" transom and a 15" short shaft Tohatsu 40 w/tilt/trim. I get a little ventilation with my 40 Johnson on hard turns but I've got the motor as low as it can go. It's cavitation plate sits almost 1.5" above the bottom of the hull. If I trim in on hard turns it doesn't ventilate as bad. I don't usually take hard turns as I'm no hot doggin' fool. I avoid running the boat/motor combos outside of their limitations because I love them. Then I tell folks I'm not into hard turns when the truth really is that my combo doesn't do well so I baby it.

I've done lots of top speed/rpm/gps prop testing with my 1957 35hp Johnson spending hours at a time making two way runs recording data and switching props. One day I tested out 5 different prop combos. OCD, yes.

Thanks for the info.
 

Vintin

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
223
I sitting here going through the online service manual looking over the wiring. I want to avoid at all cost using the hull of my aluminum boat for the ground circuit. It looks like my tilt/trim gauge may be getting ground via a support bracket. I don't like that but don't know if is getting ground via the wiring harness. I hope so. The bow light was using the hull for the ground circuit and of course it is getting it's own ground wire.

I've got the battery ground disconnected as I check out wiring and loosely mounted gauges, etc. I'm really wanting to get this combo on the water but am not going to until I check it out to the best of my ability.

I thank all who come to my aid!

Here is a photo of me in my 1950 Feather Craft Fire Fly. Powered by a 1969 25hp Johnson and hitting about 33 mph tops. This boat is 10'2" long and very fun to fly around in. I'm sitting on a pad crossed legged.

Click image for larger version  Name:	Dan Fire Fly1.JPG Views:	1 Size:	362.2 KB ID:	10642562
 

Sea Rider

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
12,345
Some issues :

It's a very bad idea to test run any engine specially a 2 strokes for long time periods in a barrel with self contained water, can't possibly cooll engine properly with "heated water" along too much oily water going through powerhead which will lessen proper internal heat removal. A friend of mine did same for hours while breaking in a new engine out of the box and to his surprise ended seizing badly his new engine, real bad music.

Sitting a Tohatsu AV plate to be even or 1.5 inch deeper with aft lower keel is no indication whatsoever that engine will work nicely powering any given boat. One issue is a dry installation, other story when combo floats or is under way. Some boats floats way more other way less compared to others, depends on their hull shape.

OTOH, not all boat Companies manufacturers their boat with same transom height which in a S one could vary from 38 to 40 Cm in height. Same applies for engines, Tohatsu builds slight larger lower legs compared to any other engine manufacturer, been able to mesure 3 in same S sizes and all 3 had slight different lower leg mesurements.

Been selling, installing Tohatsu engines, modifying transom heights for the past 10 years, have found that in order to get the max out of any given HP engine need to be spot on transom seated for water flow at speed to skim right under small upper plate same as illustration (1)

4-Ideal Water Flow Height.JPG

If water flow skims right over the small upper plate will achieve unwanted back/over transom water splashes which will slow combo down while lower leg drag will be dramatically increased which is highly counter productive as engine will achieve less rpm and will need to throttle more with associated increased fuel consumption.

If water flow skims above AV plate, the ideal water height level obtained at (1) will bee too much lessened and prop will tend to aerate at choppy, windy water cond and at tclose turns at plane, not necessarily going full throttle. This set up is only good for straight water courses on just flat, calm water cond.

Assume you want to get the max out of that 40 HP, right. The only possible way to know if that Tohatsu seats at the sweet transom heigh spot is by visual inspection. Once on plane with engine trimmed to 90°, have someone pull head out around engine side and check at which lower leg is water passing by and if with water splashing upwards or prop aeration. Water tests must be performed on flat, no windy water cond.

Once correct engine height is matched combo will achieve a very flat middle rear wake at full throttle...

Wake.JPG

Now it's the proper time to go for a correct prop maximization to a usually a lower pitch prop as Tohatsu likes delivering their engines bit over propped, just good for breaking in their engines, but probably not suited right for your current application and load. See the boat has a dash tach, is it working properly ? does not corresponds to the actual combo ? if so, go for one. Can't make a top prop maximization by ear sound, not even being a musician LOL!!

Just for fun checked both 40-50 HP power head parts. For a correct 50 HP upgrade, provided that other parts are exact same need to swap/buy the following : upper, middle & lower carbs, manifold assy & gasket, reed valve assy, air silencer, 3 spak plugs. Total spare parts cost : $ 730.00 Hand labor, not included. Is it worth the extra expense to achieve + 10 more HP when can have an extraordinary boating fun time with a optimized transom/engine height along a prop maximization...

Happy Boating
 

Vintin

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
223
Sea Rider thanks so much for the advice!

I did run the motor for quite a while in the tank but there was a constant supply of fresh cool water. I saw in the service manual to not let the water get over 77°F I believe it was. Mine may have been 80°F but not any higher. I also read about 'carbon' in the exhaust building up on the motor inner cooling surfaces. I hope I didn't have a problem there but time will tell. It did run fine and has been restarted several times but I will not run it in a tank for long periods again.

Great photo!
I hear you about proper AV plate height. This motor came bolted to this hull and the AV plate falls right even with the bottom of the hull. Test runs in the lake is going to tell the story and I hope to get it out later this week. I know several people with this hull running OMC 40hp motors from the nineties and they make out fine with the AV plate even with the bottom of the hull. All motors are different of course and I'm about to find out the hard way just how different they are. Ventilation on hard turns would not be too much of a problem for me because I'd just avoid hard turns. I want straight ahead cruising speed and efficiency. Splash from the motor lower unit would really suck though and of course is unacceptable. I of course am looking for the 'sweet spot' you have described.

The dash tach seems to be working properly and is set at the 'six pulse' setting. I've also tested the low oil warning system and the low oil light lights up on the tach. I wonder what the tach is from?

Thanks for taking the time to run the parts cost for a conversion from 40 to 50hp. It does discourage me from wanting to make the 10hp increase mod. I'm not totally discouraged though. I cruise with at least 5 others running this same Feather Craft hull and most of them are running 50hp 2 cylinder OMC motors. I'm as competitive as the next guy, hence my interest in the mod.

I will be working on transom height and optimum propping over the winter.

Thanks so much for your detailed and highly informative response.

Dan
NE Georgia.

P.S. I don't have an overheat sensor or the associated buzzer. I've found both available online. I'm used to the buzzer being in the throttle/shifter and am not sure where the Tohatsu buzzer mounts. I do see where the overhead sensor mounts to the head and I believe where it ties into the wiring harness. I'd like to have the buzzer at the helm so I'm sure to hear it. I'll keep you posted. Check your private messages for my name, address and phone number if you would ever be so kind as to give me a call sometime.

P.S.S. Do you know of any Evinrude or Mercury motors that are just rebaged versions of my 2003 Tohatsu 40hp carbed two stroke?
 
Last edited:

Sea Rider

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
12,345
You're welcome Dan,

A awful engine/transom match story.

Used to run a 96 15 HP Evi engine powering a boat with spot on matched transom height for this particular engine. Installed a new out of the box S shaft Tohatsu 18 HP engine, guess what, splashed so much water out transom when under way along full deck flooding when on plane. This illustration happens when water flow at speed skins right over small upper plate when should pass right under it to match previously posted photo.

Back Water Splashes.JPG

Had to rise the transom accordingly to work as wanted, from that bad water experience all my babies have had transom heights optimizations to get along really well while being powered with Tohatsu engines. In your particular case, it's all about to "determine" if engine sits at the sweet transom height spot as a first step. The overall idea is to have the least lower leg drag with max prop thrust along a maximized prop. Each boat is unique, needs to count with a perfectly engine brand/boat brand transom height match for best water performance.

Once running at middle or max wot rpm range as currently loaded, you can throttle at the rpm range you like most with excellent fuel consumption throughout the whole throttle range.

If wanting to be beat if not boat even with your boating mates running same boat model powered with 50 HP engines, but surely with no prop mximization whatsoever go for what's highly recommended.

Will check my PM, thanks

Happy Boating
 

Vintin

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
223
Today I took the boat/motor out for it's first testing since I've owned it. I saw no splash that would indicate that the motor is set too low in the water and no ventilation on hard turns that would indicate that it is too high on the transom. It still may not be optimized but it might be close.

I am concerned that at wide open I'm getting 33mph but my tack is only showing around 4,700 rpm. I was running with the lightest load that I'll likely ever be running.

Like Sea Rider has stated that he sees many over propped installs, I believe mine is, too.

What is on it now is an aluminum three blade 11" X 15" pitch. I don't know the brand name.

I'm looking for suggestions for my next to purchased propeller that will get me in a better rpm range for this motor. I want to go aluminum until I get the rpm dialed in. Then I'll get a stainless prop too and have a prop guy play with cupping and minor pitch changes.

Looking over props I see both diameter and pitch options.

Thanks for any advice.

Dan
 

Attachments

  • First time out Tohatsu 40hp 003.JPG
    First time out Tohatsu 40hp 003.JPG
    809.1 KB · Views: 2
  • First time out Tohatsu 40hp 001.JPG
    First time out Tohatsu 40hp 001.JPG
    786.1 KB · Views: 2

Sea Rider

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
12,345
Today I took the boat/motor out for it's first testing since I've owned it. I saw no splash that would indicate that the motor is set too low in the water and no ventilation on hard turns that would indicate that it is too high on the transom. It still may not be optimized but it might be close.

Dan,

You're at the SETHS for that engine. Would recommend to prop it right with 2 minimum souls on board for engine to rev towards its max 5850 wot rpm range as solo boating is very boring. Combo will achieve a super fast hole shot, better top end speed and excellent fuel consumption throughout the entire rpm range.

The last 5 Tohatsu engines installed on different light to medium light applications were found overly pitched, needed 1-2 pitch drops for said engines to run towards its max wot rpm range. Now all combos running top.

Your engine is now revving 1,150 less revs from max wot range. Try a Tohatsu OEM 3 blade alum 13 pitch in whichever diam was factory manufactured. Pitch is all, diam is secondary. From there can go fine tuning that 13 if needed. Report your findings..

SETHS = Sweet Engine Transom Height Spot LOL!!

Happy Boating
 

Vintin

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Messages
223
Thanks so much Sea Rider.

I ordered a 11.17 X 13" factory prop today.

I did find your other threads.

Dan
 
Top