Bad trigger again?? 50hp force '90

[acalabro]

So a few months back, I had no spark on #2 cyl & eventually brought it to a mechanic for diagnosis. He told me the trigger was bad because dva was 0.2 on trigger instead of the required 0.3+. I took my boat back from him and replaced the trigger myself. It did fix the problem and has been good since.
Last week I had my boat out and after beginning to head back to the ramps I experienced a loss of power. It sounded familiar to me(like firing on only 1 cyl) but I was able to get back without calling a tow. Tested my boat today and it started fine and idled normally for 3 minutes and then started idling and sounding very rough like it did that day. My tests showed that I had no spark on #2. Now I've tested with my dva meter and resistance on trigger and I have what the tests are saying another 'bad trigger'
I went by the specifications on this document ISSUU - CDI Electronics Troubleshooting Guide - 2012 by CDI Electronics page 19
My trigger shows 0.1dva connected and resistance 28ohms on one wire set while the other set shows 0.35 dva and 45 ohms.
Is it possible that a trigger assembly went bad this fast?? I bought the trigger from outboardignition.com and I don't know what to do now. Do I just go buy another one?

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Bad trigger again?? 50hp force '90

Unfortunately based on your readings, the trigger seems to be the source of the no spark problem. I would suggest looking for an OEM trigger on ebay or other salvage stores. The OEM has a cranking DVA of 0.5+ and resistance reading of 48~52 ohms. But before doing so, you might want to uninstall the current trigger and do a close inspection and some resistance readings. This is to make sure the cause of the lower readings is not caused by wires rubbing against ground. Inspect closely on the coils and see if there is any sign of "scraping" that could have caused a short in the coils.

 

[acalabro]

Re: Bad trigger again?? 50hp force '90

Supposedly outboardignition.com includes a 2-year warranty so I'm calling them after the holiday. Thanks for the quick reply and I will keep this thread updated

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Bad trigger again?? 50hp force '90

Supposedly outboardignition.com includes a 2-year warranty so I'm calling them after the holiday. Thanks for the quick reply and I will keep this thread updated

I still recommend you do a close inspection on the trigger to find out if there is anything "rubbing" or "scraping" against the trigger unit that could cause a short ckt. The only thing that can destroy or damage a trigger unit is through mechanical means since it is nothing but a set of coils generating a voltage trigger (spike) when a magnet passes through it. Remember, whenever you advance the throttle the trigger unit also moves physically at the same time to advance the timing. This mechanical motion can be a source of problem if something is rubbing or scraping against the trigger coils.

 

[acalabro]

Re: Bad trigger again?? 50hp force '90

I still recommend you do a close inspection on the trigger to find out if there is anything "rubbing" or "scraping" against the trigger unit that could cause a short ckt. The only thing that can destroy or damage a trigger unit is through mechanical means since it is nothing but a set of coils generating a voltage trigger (spike) when a magnet passes through it. Remember, whenever you advance the throttle the trigger unit also moves physically at the same time to advance the timing. This mechanical motion can be a source of problem if something is rubbing or scraping against the trigger coils.

I still recommend you do a close inspection on the trigger to find out if there is anything "rubbing" or "scraping" against the trigger unit that could cause a short ckt. The only thing that can destroy or damage a trigger unit is through mechanical means since it is nothing but a set of coils generating a voltage trigger (spike) when a magnet passes through it. Remember, whenever you advance the throttle the trigger unit also moves physically at the same time to advance the timing. This mechanical motion can be a source of problem if something is rubbing or scraping against the trigger coils.

Okay. Also, I will take pictures of the flywheel magnets when I remove it I do not know what they should look like. As far as any kind of 'scraping' or 'rubbing' of any kind it seems like that is unlikely but I will examine the friction points carefully. Just want to make sure that the trigger is indeed the problem and not the CDI box for sure before I get a new trigger. According to the CDI electronic manual > page 19. Is my motor's condition called 'POWER PACK OR TRIGGER REPEATEDLY BLOWS ON SAME CYLINDER' or am I 'NO SPARK OR INTERMITENT SPARK ON ONE CYLINDER'? The manual is not clear to me but am I correct that since I tested resistance & DVA on trigger that the problem cannot be the CDI box? I left everything connected when I ran the tests for DVA and resistance on trigger so I suppose the problem is before the CDI box.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Bad trigger again?? 50hp force '90

When reading resistance, you need to make sure you have at least isolated the ckt being read. In the case of your trigger, you need to disconnect the wires (or at least one leg of the ckt or one wire) from the terminal block or connectors (from other ckts) to get an accurate reading. And you can do the same with voltage readings but you will need to insulate yourself from the ckt. And if the readings are not within specs, you will need to pursue the diagnosis on that aspect which means a low resistance reading will also produce a low voltage output due to a shorted coil winding. Unless, of course there are electronic parts in the ckt which I am not aware of that exists in the trigger coil, well at least on older model trigger coils.

 

[Boatdoc58]

Re: Bad trigger again?? 50hp force '90

If you purchased a CDI trigger, they have a 1 yr warranty.

 

[acalabro]

Re: Bad trigger again?? 50hp force '90

When reading resistance, you need to make sure you have at least isolated the ckt being read. In the case of your trigger, you need to disconnect the wires (or at least one leg of the ckt or one wire) from the terminal block or connectors (from other ckts) to get an accurate reading. And you can do the same with voltage readings but you will need to insulate yourself from the ckt. And if the readings are not within specs, you will need to pursue the diagnosis on that aspect which means a low resistance reading will also produce a low voltage output due to a shorted coil winding. Unless, of course there are electronic parts in the ckt which I am not aware of that exists in the trigger coil, well at least on older model trigger coils.

When I disconnected each trigger wire set and tested resistance they both passed the tests however when I connected the sets to the terminal block(leading to CD box) only one of the sets tests within specs. The same wire pair that failed the resistance test also failed the voltage showing only 0.3 while the other showed 0.5-0.6. After removing the flywheel and examining the trigger it looks as if it was brand new. The wires don't show any sign of wear/scraping however I did notice something suspicious on the inner flywheel magnets.

I have uploaded pictures of the flywheel here http://imgur.com/a/htQsO . As you can see, the top of one side of the inner magnets on the flywheel is separating from the rest. I don't know if this would cause the issues I am having and I am sending the trigger in anyways. They gave me an RMA and said I'm under warranty so I am sending it in.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Bad trigger again?? 50hp force '90

I checked the pics but I do not believe that will affect the trigger or the magnet. What is separating is steel laminate housing the magnets but the magnets themselves seems to be in good condition. A simple tap to flat the laminate will solve this problem.

Anyways, going back to the resistance reading, if the measurement is correct when wires are disconnected, then it shows the problem is not with the trigger but instead to the ckt it connects to, which is the cd mods.

After you get a replacement (which I doubt since the trigger will test correctly at the store) or the return of the trigger, try swapping the CD mods and then do a test run again. if the misfiring moves over with the switching, then the CD mod is the source of the misfiring rather than the trigger.

 

[acalabro]

Re: Bad trigger again?? 50hp force '90

I checked the pics but I do not believe that will affect the trigger or the magnet. What is separating is steel laminate housing the magnets but the magnets themselves seems to be in good condition. A simple tap to flat the laminate will solve this problem.

Anyways, going back to the resistance reading, if the measurement is correct when wires are disconnected, then it shows the problem is not with the trigger but instead to the ckt it connects to, which is the cd mods.

After you get a replacement (which I doubt since the trigger will test correctly at the store) or the return of the trigger, try swapping the CD mods and then do a test run again. if the misfiring moves over with the switching, then the CD mod is the source of the misfiring rather than the trigger.

Here is the wiring diagram:

. As you can see there is simply one wire coming from the one cd module going to each of the 2 ignition coils. I will try switching that wire, it has an easy inline connection for each ignition coil.

So if the ignition coil that was firing stops & the ignition coil that wasn't firing starts then it must be the cd module however if the condition remains the same with the same ignition coil not firing then it must be that ignition coil which needs to be replaced(although I believe I tried this already I believe, but was unsure of trigger at the time and I forget what happened).. correct?:watermelon:

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Bad trigger again?? 50hp force '90

My apologies, I was thinking about a 3 or 4 cylinder engine. I forgot you have a 2 cylinder thus only one CD mod. Yes, you can switch the wires for the CD mods to see if the misfiring follows. If it does, then one section of the CD mod is bad. Remember the trigger wires are timed to each cylinder. So if you switch the trigger input wires of the CD mods you also need to switch the output wire corresponding to the cylinder.

If the misfiring stays in the same cylinder after switching the CD mod wires, try switching the ignition coils and see if the misfiring follows. if not, then definitely the trigger has a problem.