T&T leakdown tests

[topgun3690]

Recently replaced the o-rings in my tilt cylinder as it was leaking around the top. The leaking stopped but now I have a leakdown problem. When fully raised the motor slowly comes down, takes about 15-20 minutes.

I tried the tests mentioned in the stickies. The first test was for the tilt cylinder. Disconnected and capped the line and plugged the valve body. The tilt came down just like before. The solution given by Jiggz was to rebuild or replace the tilt cylinder. Since I already rebuilt the tilt is it possible that the valvebody is causing the leakdown? My Chrysler manual had a test for the trim cylinder and it passed, never came down any. So my question is: Can a bad(leaking) valvebody make the tilt cylinder appear to be bad?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Usually the leakdown is from the shuttle valve in the
lower part of the pump.
Read the stickies and find the ones for T@T
They show pics of the parts.

 

[topgun3690]

Saw your sticky about the T&T, good info...went ahead and ordered the Briggs and Stratton seals and will take a look at it soon. Thanks.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Remember there is NOTHING you can fix in the pump itself!!!!!
The shuttle valves can be tricky to get out be carful or you can
damage them beyond repair.

 

[topgun3690]

Yes, the "damage them beyond repair" part is what I am thinking about......as I understand it, these original VB units are much better than the aftermarket ones, especially the chinese made junk. So I don't want to ruin mine. Do you know if Franz marine or anyone else that has a repair service where you could ship it to them for overhaual? Thanks.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Not sure if Franz does any repairs??
If they've been in salt water the difficulty increases
by about 75%.
There was a guy on here(RRITT) that did them but he's since
passed away, his daughter seemed to take over the
business but I haven't seen anything on her in a long time.

I'd try the repair, just take your time and don't rush.
1/8th pipe plugs and compressed air might help push the cap/plugs out.

 

[topgun3690]

I will try the repair then. Ordered the B&S needle valve o-rings, the red ones. I counted 4 or 5 black o-rings in your pics....do these need to be replaced too? If so, do you know the part numbers? Thanks.

 

[topgun3690]

BTW....I am original owner and it never been in saltwater.

 

[topgun3690]

Jerry, read thru some old posts and Jiggz stated to use a Viton o-ring kit from HF for the other o-rings I was asking about. Do you agree with this?

 

[jerryjerry05]

If the orings are hard replace them.
I don't know the part#s if you did replace them

Take them off (carefully) and turn them around, that
helps them seal a bit better.

They sell oring kits that you can get, measure the
orings and see if you can get a match?
Granger has stuff like this.
Franz Marine might have the oring kits???

Viton rings?? Yes if they have your size.
Otherwise not really needed.
But always use the best that your wallet can handle

 

[topgun3690]

Got it....thanks.

 

[topgun3690]

This evening I took the VB off the pump....left the pump body mounted on the boat, wasn't hard to do at all. There was a thick black gooey crud on top of the VB when I took it off....not sure if it was deteriorated rubber or just 42 years worth of gunk built up on it. AFAIK this is the first time it has been opened. Got it cleaned up then removed one of the cir clips. Tapped it on a piece of wood, didn't budge. Ran out of time will try again tomorrow. Jerry, when you said use 1/8 th inch pipe plugs and compressed air, where would you screw in these plugs? I have 3/16 plugs for the hydraulic line holes, is that what you're talkin about?

 

[jerryjerry05]

3/16 is right, sorry
Put in a plug and then blow air into the next hole.
Then push the valve back in and hit with the air again.
Repeat.
It's softer metal so be careful.
PB Blaster or Krol will help but wash them both off asap.
They both can melt the rubber and plastic(if any).

 

[topgun3690]

OK Will see what I can do today. Thanks.

 

[topgun3690]

Jerry, had to come up with an alternate plan for removing the check valves from the VB. After spending hours tapping, blowing, PB blasting, torching, over and over again I was about to give up when I noticed some very small lettering on the VB above the outboard check valve that said MANUAL RELEASE. Thats when I decided to try letting the pump blow the valve out with hydraulic pressure. Put the VB back on minus the outboard cir clip, attached the lines, filled with oil, put a towel in front to catch the check valve.....on the third cycle the valve popped out into the towel. Then was able to push the shuttle valve and the other check valve out from inside. Waiting for o-rings to arrive then hopefully finish this beotch up. Lol

 

[jerryjerry05]

Great!!
The valve, when disassembling also use
the trick of covering with a towel or the
springs/parts can learn to fly.

 

[topgun3690]

Jerry, I gave it a shot but buggered up the first check valve by using too much heat. On my last attempt the lip holding the washers gave way and destroyed it. The left one in the pic. Since it was no good I said WTF and put it in a vise and used vice grips to remove the cap. The cap never budged and the check valve body broke in two. Never would have gotten it off with the panel pliers. Totally solidified after 42 years I guess. Called Franz Buddenberg and he had one rebuilt VB left (Prestolite) that was rebuilt by the late RRitt (RIP)....so I ordered it. Noticed that these valves looked a little different than the ones in your sticky, Thanks for all your help.

 

[jerryjerry05]

In my pics it shows 2 different kinds.
The one(yours) on the right is from the older style.
The newer one is much easier to remove, just screws
out.
Remember 30w oil. and fill when down.
If filled when up, you can force oil up into the electric
motor and cause problems.

 

[topgun3690]

FYI....found this mistake in my Seloc manual, their diagram for T&T line hookup is wrong. They have the first 2 inboard lines reversed. The black and white pic is the Seloc....color is from MasterTech site which agrees with my Chrysler manual.

 

[topgun3690]

I ordered a pack of 10 Briggs $ Stratton needle valve seals that I don't need anymore. PM if in need of some...