89 force 125 slow throttle response

[jimmbo]

That could cause the top cylinder to run lean, providing little or no power

 

[jerryjerry05]

Jimmbo, what would cause the top cyl. to run lean??

The reason to put the filter after the pump:
The pumps a low pressure pump on the draw and delivery.
If it's put before the pump, it puts strain on the pump and if there's a water separating filter already
in line, it can cause the pump to weaken and not draw under heavy loads.
On the output there's nothing to cause a problem before the carb.

 

[The Force power]

jimmbo, what would cause the top cyl. To run lean??

The reason to put the filter after the pump:
The pumps a low pressure pump on the draw and delivery.
If it's put before the pump, it puts strain on the pump and if there's a water separating filter already
in line, it can cause the pump to weaken and not draw under heavy loads.
On the output there's nothing to cause a problem before the carb.

i like this explanation; very valuable information

 

[The Force power]

[ I did carefully examine all those small wires and connections for breaks or bad connections.

Hi jiggin4perch

You should really pull/tug/wiggle these wires to find the bad wires; the problem is, the look ok but under the shrink tube they're only hanging on by a couple of strains.

if you have the time; its better to replace them all now, then your're good for the next 30 years

 

[Jiggin4Perch]

I put the filter as recommended. I do not have a water separator on the pickup line. I do foresee a complete fuel line replacement, the lines are STIFF.

MayTheForceBeWithYou I tugged on each wire as hard as you dare on each end, removed the plate that holds the coils and made sure everything is good behind it. My testing really tells me it is the coil because the coil 2 circuit fires spark when using a different coil. And coil 2 fails on other working circuits.

I continue to find evidence that this motor is extremely low hours. There are not tool marks on screws and bolts have all the paint on them. The lower unit components had factory sealant. This might just be a diamond in the ruff.

When I get my coils and after I get my lower unit sealed up (separate ongoing thread) I will report back on the RPM range and power. Thanks for all the help!

 

[The Force power]

MayTheForceBeWithYou[/USER] I tugged on each wire as hard as you dare on each end, removed the plate that holds the coils and made sure everything is good behind it. My testing really tells me it is the coil because the coil 2 circuit fires spark when using a different coil. And coil 2 fails on other working circuits.

I continue to find evidence that this motor is extremely low hours. There are not tool marks on screws and bolts have all the paint on them. The lower unit components had factory sealant. This might just be a diamond in the ruff./QUOTE]

That's good, Congrats looks like you got a keeper!

 

[Jiggin4Perch]

Ok... coils are not the problem. How do I test that I am getting power/signal from the trigger? To the CD box?

 

[jimmbo]

Jimmbo, what would cause the top cyl. to run lean??

A leaky crankshaft seal would allow air to enter the crankcase, bypassing the induction system, thus leaning out whatever mixture was delivered thru the carbs. Or if the leak is big enough, prevent the crankcase from developing enough vacuum/pressure to pull and transfer air-fuel to the combustion chamber

 

[Jiggin4Perch]

And how do I test the stator?

 

[The Force power]

tricks & testing procedures are in many of the old posts incl.links to.....

 

[jerryjerry05]

outboardignitiondotcom has test procedures for your ignition.
Maybe try U-tube they might have a video?

If the carbs aren't sinc'd that can cause the slow response.

 

[Jiggin4Perch]

I found the chart with the specs for the DVA and ohm. I was t able to find instructions on how to do the tests. I have good digital multimeter but no DBA meter (not entirely sure what one is or how to use one). I will try YouTube. I am currently switching my CDI locations to see if the miss travles from #2 to #4. I am leaving the trigger wires in their location and only changing the CDI wires. This should troubleshoot the CDI. If the miss moves to #4 and I get spark to #2 then it is my CDI if no spark stays at #2 then it's my trigger or stator. That sound right to you guys?

 

[Jiggin4Perch]

No spark stayed on #2 so CDI is good. I downloaded a shop manual so I guess the next step is to pull the stator off and bench test.

 

[The Force power]

Have you tried switching the stator-wires to that CDI?
why pull the Stator? just have the wiring disconnected when checking

 

[Jiggin4Perch]

Pulled flywheel. Where the magnet ends and begins can be wiggled maybe a 16th of a inch. It doesn't spin but not sure if it would have any impact on the performance since I still have spark on 1, 3, 4. I still can't find how to test resistance on the stator. What wire pairs to test. I have the specs that it should fall into but not the prosses.

 

[The Force power]

have you tried JerryJerry05 link he provided?

This is what I found on it;

Force Prestolite ADI Ignitions 1984-1992

General

Check for broken wires and terminals, especially inside the plastic plug-in connectors. We recommend that you remove the pins from the connectors and visually inspect them. Check the flywheel for a broken or loose magnet. Disconnect the kill wires from the CD and connect a DC voltmeter between the kill wires and engine ground, turn the ignition switch on and off several times. If, at any time, you see voltage appearing on the meter, there is a problem in the harness or ignition switch. At NO TIME SHOULD YOU SEE BATTERY VOLTAGE ON A KILL CIRCUIT. Visually inspect stator for burned or discolored areas. If found, replace the stator. If the areas are on the battery charge windings, it indicated a possible problem with the rectifier.

IF NO FIRE ON ANY CYLINDER: Disconnect kill wire AT THE PACK. Check for broken or bare wires on the unit, stator and trigger. Measure DVA voltage of the stator between the output wire sets. With everything connected, readings should be approximately 180 volts or more. Resistance readings between the stator wire sets range from 680 - 800 ohms. Disconnect the rectifier. If the engine fires, replace the rectifier.

NO FIRE OR INTERMITTENT ON ONE CYLINDER: Check stator and trigger resistance, trigger wire sets read approximately 50 ohms between the wire sets (DVA-5V or more), stator reads 680-800 ohms, DVA 180V or more from blue to yellow. If readings are good, disconnect kill wire from one pack. If the dead cylinder starts firing, the problem is likely the blocking diode in the other pack.

NO FIRE ON TWO CYLINDERS: If two cylinders from the same CD unit will not fire, the problem is usually in the stator. Test per above.

ENGINE WILL NOT KILL: Check kill circuit in the pack by using a jumper wire connected to the kill wire coming out of the pack and shorting it to ground. If this kills the pack, the kill circuit in the harness or on the boat is bad, possibly the ignition switch.

COILS ONLY FIRE WITH THE SPARK PLUGS OUT: Check for dragging starter or low battery causing slow cranking speed. DVA test stator and trigger.

HIGH SPEED MISS: DVA check stator voltage to each pack at high speed. If it exceeds 400 volts, replace the pack. Disconnect the rectifier. If the engine fires smoothly, replace the rectifier.

 

[Jiggin4Perch]

I must be blind but cannot find his link, thank you for copying it for me. Stator ohms at .689 k ohm on both pairs, no continuity to ground on any of the pairs. While the resistance is on the low end it still falls into specs so i think it is fine. It would also seem to me that since there are only two legs to the stator, (1 pair for each CDI) that a bad stator wouId not cause no spark on only one cylinder. Wouldn't a bad stator cause no spark for the entire CDI pack? I don't have a dva meter to test the trigger so I will have to go by resistance.

 

[The Force power]

The Stater provide power to the CDI-pack(s) (think of it as a Capacitor) the trigger causes the energy to be discharged at the right time to the right Coil
I asked earlier; if you had tried to swap the Stator-wire to a different CDI if it would work then?
In addition check this; disconnect the two wire coming out of the Stator-going to the Rectifier (a faulty Rectifier can screw things up)

 

[Jiggin4Perch]

I understand what the stator does. Im trying to understand if the stator provides power by 4 lines (one for each coil via the CDI), or 2 lines(one for each CDI). Ultimately I want to know if a faulty stator can lose spark on exclusively one cylinder or if it causes loss of spark 2 at a time. I swapped CDI locations all together, all stator and trigger wires where kept in the correct spots only cdi wires swapped, the miss did not follow the CDI. I did not move just the stator wires. I will try moving the stator wires to see if no spark moves.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Get a wiring diagram.
The white wires go to the key.
The others go to the regulator.

IF NO FIRE ON ANY CYLINDER:

1. Disconnect kill wire AT THE PACK.
2. Check for broken or bare wires on the unit, stator and trigger.
3. Measure DVA voltage of the stator between the output wire sets. With everything connected, reading s should be approximately 180 volts or more. Resistance readings between the stator wire sets range from 680 - 800 ohms.
4. Disconnect the rectifier. If the engine fires, replace the rectifier.

NO FIRE OR INTERMITTENT ON ONE CYLINDER: Check stator and trigger resistance, trigger wire sets read approximately 50 ohms between the wire sets (DVA-4V or more), stator reads 680-800 ohms (factory) and 200- 300 (CDI/RAPAIR) DVA 180V or more from blue to yellow. If readings are good, disconnect kill wire from one pack. If the dead cylinder starts firing, the problem is likely the blocking diode in the other pack.

NO FIRE ON TWO CYLINDERS: If two cylinders from the same CD unit will not fire, the problem is usually in the stator. Test per above. HIGH SPEED MISS: DVA check stator voltage to each pack at high speed. If it exceeds 400 volts, replace the pack. Disconnect the rectifier. If the engine fires, replace the recfifier.