Has anybody converted a merc p/s actuator into a hyd. steering ram,..??..??

[Bondo]

Ayuh,...... Lookin' at my steerin' options for the Old Town Atlantis project,......

Could buy a new helm,'n cable, 'n go with the conventional merc p/s,.....
Or,.....
I've got a hyd. helm that came outa a Tres Martin off-shore race boat that I bought off his wife some years ago,......
Got the helm, resv. tank, hyd. lines, etc, but hate the ram/ actuator I've got, 'n it won't easily mount to the Bravo HP transom,.....
Also got an auto-pilot for it,....

I have a couple of Merc p/s actuators, both the old style, 'n the new style,.....
The old style interests me, as it's the one with exposed oil lines to the ram, where the new style is internal drillings,.....
So I took apart an old style,.....
The valve is held on by a 1/2" bolt, 'n the hyd. lines,.....
I'm thinkin' I can cut down the cast housin' around the ram, the valve hump, 'n the cable clevis,.....
Then mount the ram on the transom the way it normally mounts,.....
After which, I just gotta adapt the hyd. lines from the helm to the hyd. line ports in the merc steerin' ram,.....

Somebody, Please shoot some holes in my Plan,..??..??......
Why won't it work,..??
Or will it, 'n it's done all the time,..??

 

[kmarine]

Looks like the master is building a new Frankenstein. I have never converted one over on a bravo, love hydraulic steering on my inboards. I am sure it is possible to get it to work. May be easier to repair with original parts, how much fun would you like to have converting this. Reverse what would you say if someone asked you about engineering a proven system. The fact you are questioning what you already know as fact. ARE YOU UP TO THE CHALLENGE

 

[Bondo]

ARE YOU UP TO THE CHALLENGE

Oh Yea,..... I've been Bondoizin' things for well over 5 decades,......

My forte' is makin' proven designs, work Better,......

I'm also considerin' deletein' the resv tank, 'n feedin' the helm with the p/s pump, runnin' an open circuit,......
The pressure would only be the the resistance of the lines to the helm, 'n back to the pump,.....
Might even see if I can lower the pressure lower by modifyin' the p/relief valve,.....

When We used this system on the steel barge We built, Mark added an auto-pilot,....
The steerin' effort went way up, because the helm fights the auto-pilot pump, in normal steerin' mode,.....
To cure that, I see a "T" fittin' before, 'n after the auto-pilot pump, with a solenoid valve in-between,.....
Auto-pilot off, open solenoid valve,....
Turn the auto-pilot "On", the solenoid valve closes, allowin' it to work, steerin' the boat by Gps,....

I'm already Bondoizin' the hull, widenin' the stringers to 32" from the 23" they were(to better fit the fuel tanks)....
And,....
I'm movin' the motor forward 'bout 2', 'n goin' to a jack-shaft drive, so I can walk behind the motorbox at the transom,.....

 

[alldodge]

Looked at this yesterday and again today and not coming up with any advise. They do make a cable steer autopilot for Mercruiser/VP

 

[Grub54891]

Looked at this yesterday and again today and not coming up with any advise. They do make a cable steer autopilot for Mercruiser/VP

Yes they do I just can't remember the company right now.

 

[alldodge]

Yes they do I just can't remember the company right now.

Octopus and would post a link but its a competitor but also Bondo was wanting to use the Hydraulic system from Tres Martin, or at least that's how I understood it

 

[Grub54891]

Octopus and would post a link but its a competitor but also Bondo was wanting to use the Hydraulic system from Tres Martin, or at least that's how I understood it

Yeah that's it! ^^

 

[Scott Danforth]

I see no problem actuating a steering actuator with a hydraulic helm and cylinder.

nothing more than a glorified orbitrol valve and actuator as used for decades on heavy equipment.

just get good Hydraulic lines.... loss of fluid = loss of steering.

 

[Bondo]

Looked at this yesterday and again today and not coming up with any advise. They do make a cable steer autopilot for Mercruiser/VP

Ayuh,...... I have the Raymarine Sport Pilot II on my cable steered tin fishin' barge,.....
Never really like it as it made the steerin' extremely heavy, arm powerin' through the clutch in it,....
Worse yet, it would work goin' down-wind, or at speed, but trollin' up-wind, it couldn't keep up with the flatish bottom tinbarge gettin' blown all over the lake,....

I could use it on the new boat, as I'm scappin' the tinbarge,..... It would probably track better in the 27* glass boat, rather than the 10* tinbarge,....
The tinbarge is worth more in bits, 'n pieces, 'n scrap, than as a boat nobody seems to want, at a fair price,....
Gonna use the semi-rigid bimini top I built years ago as the startin' point for the new bigger better semi-rigid bimini for the new boat,.... oughta save me a month of weldin' on the new one,....

The trim tabs, 'n electronics will swap over too,.....

I've got several helms, 'n cables in excellent shape, one with one short season on it, but so far, the cables all seem to be just alittle to short,....
Will have to buy a cable, or build this hyd. system with what I've got, 'n alittle ingenuity,....

I know I can buy an external ram, or an in the boat ram for the Bravo, but when lookin' over the old style p/s actuator, I can't see any reason not to use it's ram, as a in the boat ram, as obviously, it fits, Perfectly,.....
Plumbin' my 3/8" hyd. lines to it's 1/4" ports should be fairly easy,.....

In the pictures, I marked the parts of it in white lines, where I intend to cut the useless bits of cast off it, just to clean up the look of the install,.....

I see no problem actuating a steering actuator with a hydraulic helm and cylinder.

Ayuh,..... You weren't there when I started typin',....... I can't see any holes in my plan either,............. yet,......

Thanks for yer vote of confidence,.....

 

[Scott Danforth]

Remember......without pictures.....it didnt happen

 

[Bondo]

Remember......without pictures.....it didnt happen

Ayuh,..... There's pictures in my 1st post of the ram 1/2 of the actuator, with white paint lines where I'm gonna butcher it,.....

Will post more as it progresses,.....

Was gonna do it tonight, but instead built a stabilizer bar for the crankshaft mounted raw water pump,.....
No pictures of that yet,.....

Another question though,......

We always talk about swappin' the pressure relief valve when swappin' on a saginaw p/s pump,....
The Merc p/s pressure is 1150/ 1250 psi in the manual,.....
What's the pressure of the automotive p/r valve,..??..??

 

[alldodge]

Same old Saginaw pump in a car/truck not more then 800 psi or so

Off road a HP stuff same as Merc if not more

 

[Bondo]

Same old Saginaw pump in a car/truck not more then 800 psi or so

Off road a HP stuff same as Merc if not more

Thank you AD,.....

 

[Scott Danforth]

Gm saginaw pump from GM trucks is what is in merc/vp/etc. 1200 psi

Ford came with 900 psi

There are 4 or 5 can-o-ham pump pressure regulators.

There are also about 30 different can-o-ham reservoirs, not including the aftermarket remote reservoirs

Then again, pull the electric steering pump from a Toyota MR2 and only generate pressure when needed

 

[alldodge]

Ya know, doing a full hydraulic steering, would probably work with way less pressure, but then again I don't know what the torque load equates with pressure

 

[Bt Doctur]

One would think that a Sea-Star helm unit would also work to operate the cylinder
Keep us posted, Bondo

 

[Scott Danforth]

Ya know, doing a full hydraulic steering, would probably work with way less pressure, but then again I don't know what the torque load equates with pressure

The bore of the cylinders will determine what pressure would be needed.

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,..... The pump isn't necessary for this helm system, but just me tryin' to over-complicate a very simple system,......

I no doubt should drop this idea of feedin' the helm with a pump, 'n just use the resv. tank that goes with it,.....
It's got a little handpump in the tank to put head pressure on the oil to move it up to the helm, when the tank is mounted below the helm,....

I think I'll drag out all the bits, 'n pieces, hook it up on the bench, 'n see how many turns of the helm it takes to move the ram throughout it's travel,.....
Comin' from an off-shore race boat, it may move to much oil, to quickly,.....
I'm pretty sure the merc. p/s ram is much smaller than the transom mounted rams used on off-shore race boats,.....

I'll also did up the name of the manufacturer, 'n model if possible,.....
It's a fairly big helm, way bigger than the sea-star helms,....

Yes Scott,........ I'll include Pictures,.....

 

[Bondo]

I think I'll drag out all the bits, 'n pieces, hook it up on the bench, 'n see how many turns of the helm it takes to move the ram throughout it's travel,.....
Comin' from an off-shore race boat, it may move to much oil, to quickly,.....

Ayuh,..... Only a tiny bit of progress in this, so far,.....
Not much of an up-date, but some pictures anyways,.....

I've got the H-41 helm, with the 3/4" tapered shaft,.....
It's literally twice the size of the one in the picture on this page,.....
5.4" of oil moved by it,.... The think it's gonna be Quick steerin',....

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,..... I put it all together last night for the bench test,.....

After purgin' all the air outa the system, I've come to 2 conclusions,.....

It's only 2, 'n 1/3rd turns lock to lock,......
'n it's a rather "Stiff" steerin' system,.....

Now I'm torn again,.....
Go with it, 'n be happy with the effort required to turn the wheel,....
Or,.....
Go with a cable, P/S system, for the easy turnin' wheel,.....

I've also got a year old nfb cable helm, 'n new style p/s actuator, 'n it's lookin' pretty good right now,.....

Decisions, decisions, decisions,..??.......