Need some help with Cable and Drum steering questions PLEASE.

[MPrimeaux]

Hello all, I am restoring a 1957 Fleetform 14' fiberglass runabout with a 1963 Merc 650 on it. The boat is fitted with a cable and drum helm and I was planning on staying with the cable and drum. I have been doing my best to do my own research before asking a bunch of questions, but a little input would help. I have a couple of questions:
1. The only new tiller pulleys I seem to find have a hook instead of an eye.... is that ok? I realize they are made and sold like that, I was just wondering is someone could put my mind at ease with a tidbit of info on why they don't have eyes for something like a shackle.
2. I don't have the motor bracket for the Merc 650 that I put on it. The boat had a '57 35hp Evinrude Lark on it when I bought it and I have that bracket. Is it ok to simply build something out of say.... 3/16" - 1/4" stainless with a couple of holes drilled in it to bolt through the single hole in the front of the Merc?
3. I understand opinions vary, but I'm pretty sure I'm comfortable with the drum and cable steering. However the motor DOES have a hollow tilt tube for a push/pull.... modern.... Teleflex??? I'm a little confused on the correct terminology for a modern steering cable. I don't see where it would be cheaper to buy a new helm and cable, especially being I don't have the ball joint link to go from the cable to the motor either. Am I correct in assuming that it would be much cheaper and IF done correctly, safe to stay vintage with the drum and cable steering?

Any input will be appreciated.
Thanks everyone.

 

[matt167]

If it were mine, I'd have the original steering wheel machined for teleflex if it was different and just spend the $100 on a Teleflex kit. It's safer, steers better and while you would be left with the large splashwell holes from the cables you really couldn't tell the difference otherwise. 99% of the systems are hidden anyway

 

[MPrimeaux]

If it were mine, I'd have the original steering wheel machined for teleflex if it was different and just spend the $100 on a Teleflex kit. It's safer, steers better and while you would be left with the large splashwell holes from the cables you really couldn't tell the difference otherwise. 99% of the systems are hidden anyway

That is surely an option. Would the original steering wheel not fit a standard 3/4" tapered shaft? I have thought about it swapping pretty hard and am really still on the fence, but I thought that all I would have to do is purchase a helm, cable, and (the thing that I'm REALLY unsure about) a link/ball joint to attach the motor to the cable. Is this not accurate?

 

[GA_Boater]

Some will say pulley and cable steering is unsafe. I disagree. The key any steering system is maintenance of the cables.

1) Anyway - My boat was built in 1966 and uses hooks on the pulleys. The cable is always under tension which keeps the hooks in place.

2) My motor also has a tilt tube so I could convert if I wanted. I'm not at the boat right now, but the connector mounts on what I'll call the tiller arm with one or two bolts. It looks something like this;



3) The only parts you need to stay vintage is new cable, pulleys, the springs and motor connector. You probably have most of that, including the steering drum and the motor connector may work. I only had to replace the cable, which I got at Home Depot. To convert you need a helm kit with steering cable and the steering link - Probably about $350.

 

[matt167]

That is surely an option. Would the original steering wheel not fit a standard 3/4" tapered shaft? I have thought about it swapping pretty hard and am really still on the fence, but I thought that all I would have to do is purchase a helm, cable, and (the thing that I'm REALLY unsure about) a link/ball joint to attach the motor to the cable. Is this not accurate?

I'm not really sure. In 1957 nothing was standard

 

[MPrimeaux]

Some will say pulley and cable steering is unsafe. I disagree. The key any steering system is maintenance of the cables.

1) Anyway - My boat was built in 1966 and uses hooks on the pulleys. The cable is always under tension which keeps the hooks in place.

2) My motor also has a tilt tube so I could convert if I wanted. I'm not at the boat right now, but the connector mounts on what I'll call the tiller arm with one or two bolts. It looks something like this;



3) The only parts you need to stay vintage is new cable, pulleys, the springs and motor connector. You probably have most of that, including the steering drum and the motor connector may work. I only had to replace the cable, which I got at Home Depot. To convert you need a helm kit with steering cable and the steering link - Probably about $350.

Thanks for your input GA. You have been a huge help to me and I have read several posts that you have replied to on cable/drum steering. That is one of the main reasons that I have really been leaning toward staying with the original steering. I see where it would be important to stay on top of maintenance and inspect regularly, but I also see that if everything is in good working order and tight... it's simple and cheap..... I'm not really trying to "cut corners" per say, but in a resto project, $100 bills disappear with little to no trouble at all. I THINK you've answered one of my main questions about the "hook" pulleys. If I understand right, in your experience as long as the cable is kept tight (and the 2 springs at the aft do this effectively) I should have no issues with the hooks/pulleys coming off. Is that correct? I would really appreciate a picture of the motor pulley assembly bracket to see an example of how it attaches and the angle of the cables when the motor is down. Another thing that I haven't really gotten a solid answer on is how much tension on the springs?? Half on both?? 3/4??

 

[MPrimeaux]

I'm not really sure. In 1957 nothing was standard

good point... I understand. I get home in a couple of weeks and I should have all of the parts in to hopefully get the motor running and plan to put it in the water to test it out and get a few bits of info before continuing with my resto, so I/m thinking I will need some steering for the test run!

 

[MPrimeaux]

Man, I'd appreciate that a bunch!

 

[GA_Boater]

Please remember to keep any possible transactions private.

I'm not home right now and don't have access to my pics. Tomorrow or Tuesday for those.

I think I compressed the springs about halfway and I think there are 4 springs - two on the motor connector and an anchor spring on both sides of the splashwell. The pics will show that.

 

[MPrimeaux]

Please remember to keep any possible transactions private.

I'm not home right now and don't have access to my pics. Tomorrow or Tuesday for those.

I think I compressed the springs about halfway and I think there are 4 springs - two on the motor connector and an anchor spring on both sides of the splashwell. The pics will show that.

Noted on the transaction GA and that sounds good on the pics. Thanks for the info.

 

[Chris1956]

On those cable and pulley systems for higher HP motors (yes your 650 is higher HP), it is best to use 1 spring. More than one spring can allow the outboard to bounce back and forth, while underway.

My friend had cable and pulley steering on his Merc 850. It worked fine. Make sure the pulleys are well fastened to the hull.

The fitting to attach to the motor can be any strong piece of metal. You need a piece of 1/8" bar stock, with three holes. The bolt Merc used to attach the steering threads into the steering arm, and had a lock nut on it as well. You cannot be too careful.

 

[GA_Boater]

I'm glad Chris posted because my promise of pics evaporated. :doh: Hope some of this helps, MP.

This is the 1st splash setup with a single spring on both sides, not 4 springs as I said earlier.




Some close ups;




The original setup when I first bought the tinnie. Taped together and the cable was spliced under the gunnels.




An old thread with a lot of input from the late tashasdaddy with more pics and links to more info. https://forums.iboats.com/forum/boa...ering-and-controls/288131-drum-cable-steering

 

[MPrimeaux]

On those cable and pulley systems for higher HP motors (yes your 650 is higher HP), it is best to use 1 spring. More than one spring can allow the outboard to bounce back and forth, while underway.

My friend had cable and pulley steering on his Merc 850. It worked fine. Make sure the pulleys are well fastened to the hull.

The fitting to attach to the motor can be any strong piece of metal. You need a piece of 1/8" bar stock, with three holes. The bolt Merc used to attach the steering threads into the steering arm, and had a lock nut on it as well. You cannot be too careful.

Thanks a bunch for the advice Chris. I have one spring for each side ordered. Is that what you mean or would you recommend ONLY one spring on one side, total?

 

[MPrimeaux]

I'm glad Chris posted because my promise of pics evaporated. :doh: Hope some of this helps, MP.

This is the 1st splash setup with a single spring on both sides, not 4 springs as I said earlier.




Some close ups;








The original setup when I first bought the tinnie. Taped together and the cable was spliced under the gunnels.




An old thread with a lot of input from the late tashasdaddy with more pics and links to more info. https://forums.iboats.com/forum/boa...ering-and-controls/288131-drum-cable-steering

Yep GA that helps. I have a bracket that looks a lot like the motor bracket in your picture. It was on the 35hp Lark that came on the boat, but I don't THINK it's going to bolt up to the Merc. I think I see another piece of metal between the motor and the piece that the pulleys are mounted to in your picture and I don't have one of those. But.... I was a welder for 17 years or so.... I figure I can fabricate something that'll work!

 

[Chris1956]

I had two springs on my Fat 50HP Johnny, and my friend had 2 springs on his 850 Merc. We did not have any issues, however, I always read that for higher HP motors (50+ HP), you should use 1 spring total.

In your case, I would monitor the engine movement during high speed and see if your system is safe with the 2 springs. If she moves back and forth, tighten the spring preload or remove 1 spring. JMO...

 

[MPrimeaux]

I had two springs on my Fat 50HP Johnny, and my friend had 2 springs on his 850 Merc. We did not have any issues, however, I always read that for higher HP motors (50+ HP), you should use 1 spring total.

In your case, I would monitor the engine movement during high speed and see if your system is safe with the 2 springs. If she moves back and forth, tighten the spring preload or remove 1 spring. JMO...

I think that's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going to start out with 2 springs and and leave some extra cable in case I need to remove one of them. Thanks again for the input! I'm going on the 1st vacation with my oldest son and his family (my 1st grand daughter!!!:joyous next week so I'm not sure how much I'll get done this time off. I'm hoping to get the motor running at least put her in the water when I get back, but we'll see. Family First! And a little plug for my 1st grand baby.... now some of ya'll may think ya'll have the cutest gand babies..... that's ok. It's ok to be wrong every now and again!:lol:

 

[sphelps]

Glad you started this thread MP ! My Wagemaker is almost ready to hook up the cable/pulley steering .
GA do ya have a pic or diagram of how to roll the cable on the drum ? I have heard of this being done backwards before ..
That and what’s the best wire clamps or should ferrules be used instead ...

 

[GA_Boater]

Glad you started this thread MP ! My Wagemaker is almost ready to hook up the cable/pulley steering .
GA do ya have a pic or diagram of how to roll the cable on the drum ? I have heard of this being done backwards before ..
That and what’s the best wire clamps or should ferrules be used instead ...

I used wire clamps because I could loosen them as I was tensioning the cable. I got them at HD. Not supposed to be used for coated wire, but still holding after 8 years. My springs have a clamp and these were backup of sorts. Back in post #12 are some pics on the cable and better looking than the electrical tape. ;



I used 3/16 vinyl coated galvanized wire from HD.


Sam, I don't have any pics of the wrapping. You don't need pics - You need patience! LOL It was a chore laying on my back with 50' of cable wrapping around me more than drum. I finally pulled the steering shaft and drum out, then wrapped it outside of the boat. It made it a lot easier. And duct tape, a lot!

I'll try to stick the phone under the dash to show what the wraps look like. I think both the left and right cable come off the bottom of the drum, but it could be the top. Post #12 has a link to tashasdaddy's FAQ and this thread has some pics and more info - https://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...-drum?t=200994


Here are two things I learned;

When you're pulling on cables to tension them, the steering wheel won't stay put. I centered the wheel and used ratchet tie down straps to hold the wheeler centered.

The other thing is trying to take the slack out of the cable with the springs fighting you. I took one ratchet strap and hooked it up between the springs and tightened it until the springs were completely compressed. That way I could pull on the cable on a side until tight without the other side fighting back. Once both sids were tight, I released the strap between the springs. I did that a couple of times until the springs were about half compressed when the straps were released. Then I took the straps off the steering wheel and the roll of duct tape off the drum.

The cables are very taut when done and there is no slop in the steering. It's more precise than either rack and pinion or a rotary helm. Don't know about hydraulic, this a 100 times cheaper. :smile:

 

[Chris1956]

If you wrap the cable wring, she will steer opposite.

Years ago, I did some work on my buddies Mercury OB, and his father replaced the steering cable. When we went water skiing the next day, you turned the wheel right to go left and pulled back on the throttle to go faster. Made for an interesting day.....

 

[racerone]

Note-------The proper stuff to use is ----TILLER CABLE-------Not the same as clothes line stuff from a hardware store.