Long run of battery cable... AWG?

[Piece715]

I have posted these questions in my restore thread in my signature but figured i'd shoot them towards the experts. This is copy and pasted so ask if ya need some clarification on anything just shout. Please correct me as I'm sure i have messed something up, but hey that why they call it a learning process. Thanks in advance


Ok im in the process of buying wire. Going with 2 six gallon tanks the splashwell is filled. The 12 gallon tank would not fit in the splashwell. This situation has forced me to move the batteries to the bow seating one in front of each console. The question is what gauge wiring will work for this set up? I know people don't recommend this set up but i have no other choice and it will distribute weight well. The run im guess would be around 12 feet and that is prob an over estimation. I am not sure how many amps the starter draws either. The motor is a 50hp Evinrude model E50 BELCO. Now the set up includes a blue seas fuse block and a battery switch.

This is the run down of the wiring as im seeing it; Just need confirmation or ideas for better set up. The runs will be from battery to battery switch (2-3 foot run), from battery switch to fuse block (1-2 foot run), the direct run for the battery to motor is about 12 feet.

The cranking battery will be run in parallel to the deep cycle. The batteries will then be wired to the switch like so


All loads will be wired to the COM which will be the engine and the fuse block. Does the negative in the picture going from engine to bat 1 also do this in my set up and then a neg wire run from neg bat post to fuse block?? guess confused how to incorporate the fuse block and switch. The positive will go from COM on isolator switch to positive on fuse block with a master power toggle switch in line like so

How would stereo work into this? Would i want to run it through the fuse block or just wire directly to batteries as the system requires inline fuses from batt to amp.

OK i think im confusing myself. SOMEONE please help

I know this was a large post. If ya need clarification on my thoughts please ask. Im needing recommendations, suggestions, diagrams, etc. I have saved all the stickies in the electrical section and know what gauge wire I need for everything except the long run of battery wire. Guess the other main question is a general run down of wiring all the components: dual batteries, an isolator switch, fuse block, and amplified sound system. Thus concludes my jumbled novel! thank u will be here all night !

EDIT: Just had a moment of clarity. Im guessing the audio system would be wired to the COM port for positive with the ground running to the fuse block? The positive will still have an inline 50 amp fuse as recommended for the amp. This sound correct?

Ok just got back from looking at the boat. It looks like the 12 feet is pretty much the run of the engine to batteries. Also the two batteries will need a 6-7 foot run between them to run in parallel.. This possible? I understand the + end of the wiring now that i have looked at the wiring diagrams for the two pieces but still confused on the ground set up and the wiring of the amp into this set up.

Here are the pics of the installation instructions on the fuse block and isolator switch:

The switch according to installation instructions recommends 4/0 AWG per terminal. Will this be enough despite the long runs?


Thanks again I have search around and read the threads I could find on long runs of wire but most just turn away from the venture due to cost but this is the direction I have to head... at least from how i see it.

 

[jhebert]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

In distribution of 12-VDC power you must calculate the voltage drop in any branch circuit to properly size the conductor. A good voltage drop calculator is available on-line from ANCOR at

http://www.marinco.com/files/applets/wirecalculator.html

Also see

http://www.marinco.com/page/wire-tech-data

For primary power distribution you should use a three-percent voltage drop criterion.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

This situation has forced me to move the batteries to the bow seating one in front of each console.

Ayuh,.... Ya oughta rethink that,.... Batteries just Hate bein' Beat about....
The ride is Much softer at the transom...

Put the batteries in the back, 'n move yer fuel forward...

 

[sschefer]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

4 ga is fine for the run to the engine starter, 6 is fine for between the batteries. I'd bring both the + and - to separate terminal blocks and then go with 8ga to fuse box with a 60amp breaker in between the Terminal Block and the fuse box. This will serve you well if you decide you want to add things on in the future. If you go with a switch setup like the Blue Sea add a battery system and wire it according to the included schematic you'll be a happy camper in no time. I did mine a couple of weeks ago with two optima's in parallel as house batteries and then a standard start/deep cycle for my starting battery. I had it done in about 2 hours not including pulling the 6 gauge (house) up to the console and termainating it.

 

[Piece715]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

Ayuh,.... Ya oughta rethink that,.... Batteries just Hate bein' Beat about....
The ride is Much softer at the transom...

Put the batteries in the back, 'n move yer fuel forward...

Thanks Bond-o. I did think of that except im doubting the 6 gall tanks will fit under the bow seating. If they do fit by all means ill be going that direction. But if it doesn't, which i am suspecting, then ill have to have them up front. Though of buying some of that foam gardening pads that you kneel on to place under the batteries to provide some shock protection.

 

[Piece715]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

4 ga is fine for the run to the engine starter, 6 is fine for between the batteries. I'd bring both the + and - to separate terminal blocks and then go with 8ga to fuse box with a 60amp breaker in between the Terminal Block and the fuse box. This will serve you well if you decide you want to add things on in the future. If you go with a switch setup like the Blue Sea add a battery system and wire it according to the included schematic you'll be a happy camper in no time. I did mine a couple of weeks ago with two optima's in parallel as house batteries and then a standard start/deep cycle for my starting battery. I had it done in about 2 hours not including pulling the 6 gauge (house) up to the console and termainating it.

I guess im confused on your set up sschefer. Bringing the + and - to separate terminal blocks and then going to the fuse block just adding more wire to the system. Oooohhh wait... this gives you more room to add power wires for future installs like my amp for the stereo.

Ok take a look at this its not complete by all means. Im confusing myself on the negative side i feel. Can ya take a look at this pic and fill in the holes?

 

[Piece715]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?



Ok so i stumbled across this schematic. So i am going to want to go this route with the negative common bus bar. Would I a postive common buss bar after the switch? Also in this set up I am going to want a fuse (what size?) with 6 inches of positive batter post? will one be needed for other battery? Also use of a 60amp (?) breaker between fuse block and switch? If a positive common bus bar needs to be placed after switch would i want the breaker before or after that positive bus bar?

Thanks for hanging in there with me guys. Just want to make sure I have it down before starting.

EDIT: Also when installing the amp for the stereo i would not need to go through the fuse black as the positive power line requires an in line fuse. Is my thinking correct?

 

[Piece715]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

OKKK Who wants to play a game?! It's kinda like the Where's Waldo puzzle books. Except instead of finding Waldo you find where Mark screwed up. This was my first attempt at a wiring diagram so there are bound to be mistakes. I feel I'm missing a fuse somewhere by the batteries. Also I added comments into it such as gauge of wire, length of run, etc.

The switches that I have purchased are Sierra TG40300 SPST ON-OFF and Sierra TG19520 DPDT ON-OFF-ON. They have an illuminated tip that when powered on they illuminate white and then illuminate red when switched on. The illumination circuit is throwing me for a loop and I'm not sure if I have wired these switches correctly? Is it possible to wire the switches like the tach to where the lights won't glow until the nav lights are turn on? I'm guess the switch to red is internal?

Please have a look and make suggestions or edit the pic as it should be. Thanks! This is the last phase of getting my boat on the water for the first time; 4 years in the making!!

EDIT: THE SWITCHES ARE WIRED INCORRECTLY AND I AM IN THE PROCESS OF REVISING THIS DIAGRAM

 

[mark1905]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

As the stereo fanatic around these parts, I'm curious what you're planning on running..

 

[Piece715]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

I am running a Clarion CMD6 Head unit, (4) JL M650CCX, (1) JL M10IB, and JL M600/6 amp. Any suggestions on set up and wiring, kits, cheap prices, best products, etc. Thanks for looking. My thread in my signature has my sub install and so forth if ya wanna take a gander.

Anybody have anything suggestions or help with the wiring schematic? Thanks

 

[Piece715]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

For the Master Power switch. Would i just wire the switch into the system in the 8 awg coming from the negative common bus bar and the 8 awg positive after the 60 amp breaker. Placing the switch here would allow me to control the power wires supplying the fuse block?
I did a quick sketch in the original diagram changes are in green... this right?
EDIT: THE SWITCHES IN THIS POST ARE WIRED INCORRECTLY AND I AM IN THE PROCESS OF REVISING THIS DIAGRAM

 

[Piece715]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

I had read a post where i believe Bond-o had suggested using welding cables but the flexibility became an issue. Im guessing the copper makes it more flexible. Fuse the cable not the load... I know Silvertip harps on this! This fuse needs to be place near the positive terminal post correct? Thanks for the info.

 

[mark1905]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

I am running a Clarion CMD6 Head unit, (4) JL M650CCX, (1) JL M10IB, and JL M600/6 amp. Any suggestions on set up and wiring, kits, cheap prices, best products, etc. Thanks for looking. My thread in my signature has my sub install and so forth if ya wanna take a gander.

Anybody have anything suggestions or help with the wiring schematic? Thanks

Nothing bad to say about the quality of components.. very nice stuff.. just.. *choke* a tad overpriced for my liking. Good quality though.. should work well. Def go with some nice 4AWG marine cable on that amp.

Looks good!

 

[Piece715]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

WAYYY over priced! TRUST ME! I feel ya there but the available space in my boat to store components is very limited. So needless to say i didnt want to dish out money on non marine grade stuff and have a buddy drip on it or something and it short out on me. Yep was going with 4 AWG with a 50 amp fuse for the M600/6. I was going to use like a 12-14 ga for the sub but JL told me that 16 would work fine. If ya have any helpful hints it would be greatly appreciated. Where do you get you cables and wire for ur audio?

 

[Piece715]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

This is what sqbtr posted in my restore thread:

Your nav light wiring has me totally confused. You are showing the ground from the light returning to the switch and eight posts on the switch.


The power should feed both middle terminals, in one positition, lets say up, the bottom terms would be receiving power one wire to bow one to stern. in the down positition you would want only stern lt on by running jumper from bottom term to top term.

I went one further and gave the switch two feeds, one from the selected batt, one hot at all times from house batt. With the master sw off only the anchor will light even with the switch in nav.

It sounds like he is describing basic set up for a 6 terminal switch like so:

If that's the case then I switched up my diagram to this:


If this is correct why does the wiring diagram show "load -" at each terminal accepting positive feed from load?

 

[mark1905]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

WAYYY over priced! TRUST ME! I feel ya there but the available space in my boat to store components is very limited. So needless to say i didnt want to dish out money on non marine grade stuff and have a buddy drip on it or something and it short out on me. Yep was going with 4 AWG with a 50 amp fuse for the M600/6. I was going to use like a 12-14 ga for the sub but JL told me that 16 would work fine. If ya have any helpful hints it would be greatly appreciated. Where do you get you cables and wire for ur audio?

For all my marine grade power wire (which I learned the hard way to NEVER skimp on.. marine grade every day, all day, always) I have a place locally (http://www.skycraftsurplus.com/marine.aspx) that I get everything from. I was going to steer you to them but found sellers on ebay that have good prices and free shipping.. $3.95 w/free shipping for 1 AWG vs $3.50 without. For ALL other components, I'm an Amazon junkie. Sign up for the free "Prime" trial with no money down and you get 1 month of free 2 day shipping on everything no matter how small. I order a $2 RCA cable and they 2 day express it to me.. lol. Turn off auto-renew so they don't charge you. When your month is up, make another Amazon account and repeat process. I've had perpetually free 2 day shipping for over a year now since I discovered the loophole.

16awg for the speaker wire should be fine.. just make sure also to solder all of your speaker wire straight to the tabs on the speakers so the spade connectors don't rattle off. I've yet to find good marine grade speaker wire though.. all the reviews on the Pyle stuff aren't that great no too surprisingly enough.

I went through a couple of different subwoofer configurations and the Bazooka tube is by far and wide the best. I have to be careful with that thing.. I keep it on 1/4 power or else I'll really start pissing people off. Which.. for the record, I'm uber respectful with my system. I only turn it up when I'm miles from anyone in the middle of the lake or otherwise..

There's plenty of really good marine grade stuff that won't break the bank. As you can see, I love my Infinity's.. and they were around $100/pair and are INCREDIBLE. Full stadium/club sound with perfect clarity and I drive the crap out of them. Polk makes a damn fine speaker as well.. and I can't say enough about the MB Quart amps. $115 for a marine grade 4 channel that will blow your mind. Hell.. one wasn't enough.. it only took a year to turn it into five..

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

You show a negative lead going to a horn switch, at least I think that is what you are showing. No negative leads need to go to a switch unless its an illuminated switch.

No negative lead to a load needs to be switched...just the positive side of the load. You are showing negative switched loads on your bilge pump. This is not necessary.

Also, don't use welding cable. Use marine cable because it is tinned its entire length.

 

[mark1905]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

My horn has both positive and negative. Power needs a return path.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

My horn has both positive and negative. Power needs a return path.

Ayuh,.... Everything needs a ground,... but not Switched....

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Long run of battery cable... AWG?

My horn has both positive and negative. Power needs a return path.

Your schematic shows that you will cause a short circuit and blow a fuse when you push the horn button. Change it so that a wire leaves the fuse panel from a fuse output to one of the switch connectors. The other connector will have a wire that feeds the positive of the horn. From the horn, you will have a negative wire that goes back to your negative busbar.

The same example applies for the bilge pump and other loads.