Change to wiring of battery switch

[bleedblue94]

Motor is an 83 Johnson 175 upgraded to 35amp charging system

J175TXCTD

One motor, two batteries

So over the past 7 years I've gone through two of the water cooled regulators/rectifiers and it is becoming a frustrating issue to be wasting money. I am not sure if it is just parts crapping out of due to mistakes with people accidentally turning off the battery switch (which I know will toast the reg/rec).

It appears we lost one again now at the end of the season, so I want to change it out prior to storing the boat, but I also want to see if there is a way to prevent this from happening again going forward. Currently the switch is wired as follows:

1 switch - batt one
2 switch - batt two
comm - starter, all other panels, and electric draws
batt 1 - only wired to 1 switch
batt 2 - wired to 2 switch, has constant power hooked up for radio memory, backup bilge pump switch, amp for stereo

The hot line coming from the regulator is attached to the power wires on the battery side of the starter solenoid as was instructed on this site when I did the charging system upgrade. What I am wondering is if I leave everything as is, would there be an issue if I took that red wire from the reg/rec and disconnected it from the starter solenoid and ran a new wire directly to batt one?

This way I would never run the risk of the rec/reg being disconnected from a battery while the motor is running.

I we can still control which battery is feeding the general electronics of the boat, and we can charge batt 2 while underway by putting the switch to both.

Am I missing something here that would be a negative to doing this??

If I were to do this I assume I need to upgrade the size of the wire from the regulator to the battery since it is a 12'-15' run, would I just use a block to attach the reg/rec wire to a larger gauge wire to be run to batt one? I believe the idea should work, so my biggest concern is what gauge of wire do I need to use to ensure there is no melting or damage, and if that smaller wire coming off the rec/reg will be able to support a feed into a larger wire (although it already does that with feeding into the 4 gauge wire going from the comm switch to the starter solenoid).

Thanks

 

[The Force power]

Motor is an 83 Johnson 175 upgraded to 35amp charging system

J175TXCTD

One motor, two batteries

So over the past 7 years I've gone through two of the water cooled regulators/rectifiers and it is becoming a frustrating issue to be wasting money. I am not sure if it is just parts crapping out of due to mistakes with people accidentally turning off the battery switch (which I know will toast the reg/rec).

It appears we lost one again now at the end of the season, so I want to change it out prior to storing the boat, but I also want to see if there is a way to prevent this from happening again going forward. Currently the switch is wired as follows:

1 switch - batt one
2 switch - batt two
comm - starter, all other panels, and electric draws
batt 1 - only wired to 1 switch
batt 2 - wired to 2 switch, has constant power hooked up for radio memory, backup bilge pump switch, amp for stereo

The hot line coming from the regulator is attached to the power wires on the battery side of the starter solenoid as was instructed on this site when I did the charging system upgrade. What I am wondering is if I leave everything as is, would there be an issue if I took that red wire from the reg/rec and disconnected it from the starter solenoid and ran a new wire directly to batt one?

This way I would never run the risk of the rec/reg being disconnected from a battery while the motor is running.

I we can still control which battery is feeding the general electronics of the boat, and we can charge batt 2 while underway by putting the switch to both.

Am I missing something here that would be a negative to doing this??

If I were to do this I assume I need to upgrade the size of the wire from the regulator to the battery since it is a 12'-15' run, would I just use a block to attach the reg/rec wire to a larger gauge wire to be run to batt one? I believe the idea should work, so my biggest concern is what gauge of wire do I need to use to ensure there is no melting or damage, and if that smaller wire coming off the rec/reg will be able to support a feed into a larger wire (although it already does that with feeding into the 4 gauge wire going from the comm switch to the starter solenoid).

Thanks

I think you're on the right track with your thoughts and the amps-output being max 35 amps a #10 gauge wire will be sufficient but make sure to install a fuse inline with the wire.

Just a word of caution; make sure both batteries are same type/seize/condition when charging both. a battery with one individual "bad cell" will drag/drain the other battery when switched together and it will put a strain on your charging-system.
(rectifier/stator)

 

[Silvertip]

Same condition -- yes! Why would one keep a known bad battery on a boat? Same size -- makes no difference. When paralleled the alternator sees one larger battery. Same type (deep cycle, starting, or combo) -- makes no difference.

 

[The Force power]

Same condition -- yes! Why would one keep a known bad battery on a boat? Same size -- makes no difference. When paralleled the alternator sees one larger battery. Same type (deep cycle, starting, or combo) -- makes no difference.

Not always will you know that condition of a battery (unless checked with an electronic battery-tester)

Different batteries accept a charge differently therefor respond different followed by showing charge differently.
Will it be a huge difference? NO but it can do harm to the volt/amp-regulators over time or mess-up the cells in a battery.

In my opinion

 

[dingbat]

I fought a similar problem on my boat. Burned up two regulators in three seasons.

Keep in mind the system doesn’t charge or has greatly reduced output below X rpm. On my old 175 Black Max it dropped out @1500 rpm. Not good when you troll 6-8 hours a day

To correct, I installed an ACR and swapped out the starting battery for a deep cycle and upsized both batteries from Grp. 24 to Grp. 27 to minimize the depth of discharge

Couple of options for you.

Install a 1-2-Both switch with “make before break” switching. Eliminates switching issues.

Install a Blue Seas “add a battery” kit to automate the charging process. Minimizes the load on the regulator at any given time.

Upsize you’re batteries if you haven’t already. Deep discharges are not your friend

https://www.bluesea.com/support/articles/Circuit_Protection

Since you upgraded your charging system, I would check to make sure the existing wiring supports the upgrade. Under sized wiring will burn up a regulator in a heart beat.

 

[The Force power]

I fought a similar problem on my boat. Burned up two regulators in three seasons.

Keep in mind the system doesn’t charge or has greatly reduced output below X rpm. On my old 175 Black Max it dropped out @1500 rpm. Not good when you troll 6-8 hours a day

To correct, I installed an ACR and swapped out the starting battery for a deep cycle and upsized both batteries from Grp. 24 to Grp. 27 to minimize the depth of discharge

Couple of options for you.

Install a 1-2-Both switch with “make before break” switching. Eliminates switching issues.

Install a Blue Seas “add a battery” kit to automate the charging process. Minimizes the load on the regulator at any given time.

Upsize you’re batteries if you haven’t already. Deep discharges are not your friend

https://www.bluesea.com/support/articles/Circuit_Protection

Since you upgraded your charging system, I would check to make sure the existing wiring supports the upgrade. Under sized wiring will burn up a regulator in a heart beat.

The experts say; not to use Deep-cycle batteries to be charged through the motor's charging-system.
If weight is not a problem, then the bigger the battery the better.
I have two 31 D Starting-batteries(big Truck) in mine & yes it's heavy but I never worry about low battery or cooking battery due to over charging

perhaps I should mention that I don't have a trolling motor to supply power to, just a radio & the bilge pump

 

[Silvertip]

The experts say; not to use Deep-cycle batteries to be charged through the motor's charging-system.
If weight is not a problem, then the bigger the battery the better.
I have two 31 D Starting-batteries(big Truck) in mine & yes it's heavy but I never worry about low battery or cooking battery due to over charging

perhaps I should mention that I don't have a trolling motor to supply power to, just a radio & the bilge pump

And these experts are whom?

 

[The Force power]

And these experts are whom?

Not me, I have used deep cycle batteries & did not experienced any issues with the charging-system.
but if I would of said; Deep cycle batteries are good to use/to charge through the motor's ignition, I would of seen a lot of comments of being wrong!

 

[dingbat]

The experts say; not to use Deep-cycle batteries to be charged through the motor's charging-system.
If weight is not a problem, then the bigger the battery the better.
I have two 31 D Starting-batteries(big Truck) in mine & yes it's heavy but I never worry about low battery or cooking battery due to over charging

perhaps I should mention that I don't have a trolling motor to supply power to, just a radio & the bilge pump

Lots of “experts” on the Internet...lol

I’ll look again, but there is no warning in my owners manual about the use of deep cycle batteries.

Been running twin grp. 27 deep cycle batteries on the boat for 20+ years. Most the guys I run with either use deep cycle or AGM. Need the AH reserves a deep cycles brings to the tables

 

[The Force power]

Lots of “experts” on the Internet...lol

I’ll look again, but there is no warning in my owners manual about the use of deep cycle batteries.

Been running twin grp. 27 deep cycle batteries on the boat for 20+ years. Most the guys I run with either use deep cycle or AGM. Need the AH reserves a deep cycles brings to the tables

I'm surprised not to see more people piping up, maybe now that you trew in the AGM-batteries! lol

 

[bleedblue94]

lots of responses, so I will address the ones that I remember.

The boat currently has a 1 2 both make before break switch. It is an older switch but I have never seen any reason to doubt its functioning.

There is one starting battery and one deepcycle. Both batteries are healthy group 27 and work right.

Batteries receive no charge regardless of the motor rpm, up to 5k rpm.

I am considering running the charge line from the rec to the starting battery directly OR moving the wire for the starter and rec off the common wire of the battery selector and putting that wire directly to the starting battery. Then the deep cycle will only see a charge with the switch in the both setting and I can still run the boat electronic off the deep cycle via the switch when we are anchored or floating. If I do this I will probably put in a battery kill switch in line from the starter to the staring battery so I can disconnect it when we are away and not using the boat.

Any objections?

 

[dingbat]

lots of responses, so I will address the ones that I remember.

The boat currently has a 1 2 both make before break switch. It is an older switch but I have never seen any reason to doubt its functioning.

There is one starting battery and one deepcycle. Both batteries are healthy group 27 and work right.

Batteries receive no charge regardless of the motor rpm, up to 5k rpm.

I am considering running the charge line from the rec to the starting battery directly OR moving the wire for the starter and rec off the common wire of the battery selector and putting that wire directly to the starting battery. Then the deep cycle will only see a charge with the switch in the both setting and I can still run the boat electronic off the deep cycle via the switch when we are anchored or floating. If I do this I will probably put in a battery kill switch in line from the starter to the staring battery so I can disconnect it when we are away and not using the boat.

Any objections?

No objections, but installing a Blue Seas “add a battery” kit would simply things tremendously for you.

In your first post you said you upgraded to 35a charging. Here you say it doesn’t charge?

is your 1-2-both switch have “make before break” functionality? First thing I’d check

 

[bleedblue94]

No objections, but installing a Blue Seas “add a battery” kit would simply things tremendously for you.

In your first post you said you upgraded to 35a charging. Here you say it doesn’t charge?

is your 1-2-both switch have “make before break” functionality? First thing I’d check

I upgraded the charging system 6 years ago, I just included that info so that people knew what rec/reg was on the motor and didnt start arguing with me that the motor only had the small reg/rec on the side so it shouldn't be hard to just change it.

The 1 2 both switch is a make before break, and I did test it to verify. This could just be a circumstance where my rec/reg took a poop, but I was just trying to see if there was a different way to wire this thing up to prevent further issues.

I just looked into that Blue Seas system and it looks like that may be a nice add on. Any issues with reliability of their ACR?

Thx

 

[dingbat]

I just looked into that Blue Seas system and it looks like that may be a nice add on. Any issues with reliability of their ACR?

I installed one 7-8 years ago. Still going strong.

What size wire did you run from the starter relay to the terminal on the battery switch?

Remember, wire size is based on the round trip distance. A 6 foot run would be sized as 12 foot... and bigger is always better.

 

[bleedblue94]

I installed one 7-8 years ago. Still going strong.

What size wire did you run from the starter relay to the terminal on the battery switch?

Remember, wire size is based on the round trip distance. A 6 foot run would be sized as 12 foot... and bigger is always better.

Maybe a 10-12' run one direction and I used 4 gauge, so it is not undersized.

It is very possible the rec/reg just crapped out. I actually ordered that Blue Seas kit today and will install it. It seems like the easiest way to accomplish what I want without having to modify much wiring at all. $85 shipped was low enough for me to just pull the trigger. Thanks