1955 Scott Atwater 16hp 3955 Bail-a-Matic with control box rebuild

franklenz

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I've had this motor for about a year now (it's currently Sept 2018) and I have been tinkering on it little by little in hopes to have on a wooden boat one day. Most delays are due to waiting for a particular part to become available. It is all now coming to a head and it should be ready soon. . I'm starting this topic for any questions I may have for it (gear oil, prop size, misc parts requests), and to keep it all in one location. So far, I changed out the power head due to the old one being rusted/seized in place and I couldn't get it to break free. The new block has a solid 100 psi in both chambers and does not have any air leaks. The old block had no sign of damage and it appeared to have rusted due to sitting in a barn for 30 plus years. The timing plate was completely dismantled and put back together - only the coils were bad. Points were cleaned, and the condensers tested ok. All moving parts were cleaned and lubed up where needed. I made several attempts to get new coils from Larson, but he had never returned my call or emails over the past year. I finally scored some new Wico 5-5009 coils from a non-outboard vintage motor repair site. I've debated on refinishing the paint/decals, but ultimately decided that I like the original with its limited amount of scratches on it. I will save questions and the rest for follow up posts.
 

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franklenz

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This was the original condition of the ignition plate when I started. Everything was taken apart, cleaned, and tested. I pressed the coils off their cores to use them again. The condensers tested Ok, and the points cleaned up nice.
 

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franklenz

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While google-ing for parts, I discovered this Scott Atwater control box on craigslist just around the corner from me. The owner stated that they have been hanging on a nail in his garage since he bought the house 30+ years ago. I immediately went to his house, and after speaking with him for a while, he gave them to me for free. I sent him a fruit basket a couple of days late with a "thank you" card attached. This was an awesome find. I tore them apart, cleaned them, and slapped them back together. After regreasing the contact points in the box, and cleaning and relubing the calbes, they work smooth as butter.
 

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franklenz

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I soaked the rusted engine block's piston chambers for almost a month with a mixture of acetone and something else... (can't remember). I had a weight hanging from a pull start string that was spun around the flywheel, and I attempted to spin it almost every day. The thing would not budge, so I ultimately bought a new powerhead for it. $80 i believe - off of ebay. The new powerhead tested solid at 100 psi on each cylinder, and everything looks solid on it. I took apart the old powerhead, and the only thing wrong with it was the pistons rusted in the cylinders.
 

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franklenz

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All of the manuals I saw for this motor showed the impellers being located high in the lower unit. When I had the powerhead off, it was evident that this was not the case for this motor. I was happy because I heard that the ones with the impeller and bailer in the lower end will work better due to being submerged when in the water. I could not find the parts diagram that showed them in lower near the gearbox. I dropped the lower unit which confused me for a minute, but I figured out how to disconnect the shift rod (ask if you need directions on how to do this.) I pressure tested the gearbox (good results), then I tested the cooling and bailer impellers in a tub of water. I used a 12mm star deep socket and a cordless drill to spin the driveshaft. The socket fit perfect with no play (I believe it was a 12mm, you'd have to double check if you try this, but it was metric that fit best). The cooling impeller was blasting out a good amount of water, and the bailer impeller was moving a lot of water through its pathway. There was good suction on the bailer impeller inlet too. I ultimately took both of them out because I knew they would be damaged from sitting so long. Some of the blades were permanently bent, but I was surprised that there was no dry rotting and the rubber was somewhat flexible still. I was surprised to see no gaskets when taking it apart. There were only 2 O-rings - one on the bottom of the bailer impeller housing, and one on top of the cooling impeller plate. See pics.
 

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franklenz

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So, I'm still in search (and have been for a year now) for a bailer puck or bilge for this motor. I would like to get it all back to original as possible without doing any painting or decals on this one. Does anyone have one that they are willing to let go? Also, there is a rubber piece that holds extra cotter pins and prop shear pins - I can't find one of those along with not finding the extra prop shear pins. I bought one from ebay, but it turned out to be for a smaller Scott motor. It was mislabeled on ebay and not worth returning. Any direction would be greatly appreciated. If I had a manual or at least an exploded view of the motor, I would list the part numbers. I don't trust these "download pdf manual sites". It appears that you are not sure what you will end up with when downloading the stuff. Thanks in advance for any help with these items (or the manual).
 

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franklenz

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One last thing this morning... All of the fuel lines have been replaced, and the carb and fuel pump appear spotless along with the reeds are in great shape. I won't start detailing or working on those until I have good spark, but it was obviously ran dry before being put away - or at least it was using very good fuel. I understand the fuel ration is 24:1 to start. I will start there but may run just a little more oil in it to be on the safe side. The plugs were in good shape, but I ordered replacements; Champion 509 D9 Copper Plus non-resistor. Please feel free to comment or ask questions. I've worked on many OMC/Johnson/Evinrude/Mercury motors, but never on a Scott. I'm a novice at best with about 30 motors under my belt.

I just noticed that all of my posts ended up in electrical, audio and trolling motors section of the forum... not sure why. I chose other inboard/outboards when setting it up.
 
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franklenz

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This is the ignition plate all cleaned up. The coils should be delivered to my house today....can't wait.
 

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franklenz

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I just realized that I don't recall how this was wired. I think the black wire goes to the top of the condenser and the yellow wire goes to to the ground at the base of the condenser. Then, the spark plug wire connects to the tab on the side of the coil. Please correct me if I'm wrong, or confirm if I'm right. Thanks
 

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franklenz

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These are pics of the shear / cotter pin holder that I'm looking for. It attaches to the side of the handle. Please let me know if you have one that you can part with.... thanks.
 

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franklenz

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I received the cols in the mail today, hooked them up as best as I could remember, and got good alternating spak on both plugs. I'm not sure which wire goes to which location. I believe I have the yellow and black wires coming from the coil hooked up backwards to the two condenser screws. I got the black wire going to the base mounting screw, and the yellow wire going to the top of the condenser. I think it is backwards, but I can't find any photos to confirm or deny the wiring.

I also had to strip the spark plug wires and hardwire them to the coils. The tabs that were on the coils would not accept the hard ends on the plug wires. I've been told not to solder these into place due to it might damage the coil. Let me know if I'm wrong.

I put a little fuel into each cylinder, and I got some pops and backfiring, but I did not get it to run. I assume that it was just starving for fuel and backfired/sneezed. I didn't want to mess with it much further until I figured out the wiring question above. I don't want to blow the new coils or working condensers.

Please let me know if they are backwards.... thanks. Pics are attached.
 

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franklenz

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So I switched the wires around - even though my best judgement says that the black wire should be grounded to the base of the condenser.... but, originally, the wire with the flat tab on it was at the base of the condenser. The original wire had no insulation on it. It was just a bare wire. I get good spark regardless of which way it is wired up. Again, please let me know of any insight you may have on this ignition plate.

The next issue I have is; With the throttle turned to WOT, the ignition plate is aligned to open the points just a few degrees before TDC. Turning the throttle to idle/slow area would cause the points to open well after TDC. This makes no sense to me as I've never seen an engine point open AFTER tdc when in idle... minimum I've ever seen is 0-2 degrees BTDC. The magneto plate will only attach to the motor in one spot/way. There is no apparent way to adjust the timing on this motor other than using the throttle - it is all solid and preset.

The Red mark on the lobe shows where the points break open. The pic with the red mark to the left of the point is at WOT with the top piston at TDC. The pic with the red mark to the far right of the point is at idle with the top piston at TDC. If the spark is generated when the points break open, this would mean that the spark would happen well after the piston has left TDC.

This make no sense to me.... unless spark happens when the points close.

Need Help!
 

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franklenz

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I readjusted the points to be spot on, and actually the points begin to open before the red mark. The points begin to open as the points arm begins to ride up towards the red mark that I made. This puts the timing at idle 0-2 degrees btdc. WOT is obviously further before TDC. It should run now with no problem... sorry for posting all of that without double checking my point gaps.
 

franklenz

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I got the impellers in the mail to today, and installed them. Then, I attempted a launch, but had to abort. At first it would not start, and I would only get one cycle of ignition of fuel after every three pulls. I thought that maybe the carb was clogged, so I put fuel directly in the throat of the carb - only to have it spill out of the base of the intake manifold. It appears to be a gasket "air leak" between the intake manifold and the reed plate (or maybe reed plate to the powerhead). Anyway, I wheeled it back into the garage and will pull it apart tomorrow. The compression is solid, but I never did a pressure check on the crankcase due to solid looking main seals and no apparent leakage anywhere... until today. Hopefully there is not a crack in the intake or the reed plate. One of the attached pics show where it was leaking from. It's not leaking from the carb - it's clearly at the gaskets underneath. It's a steady drip right from the gasket.
 

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franklenz

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Pulled the intake manifold off, and made a new gasket for it. While it was off, I cleaned and inspected the reeds. They were dirty, but worked fine. I sprayed them off with carb cleaner while in place, wiped them gently with a soft rag (careful not to bend any), then blew them off with compressed air. I spun the engine a few times and they are flexing and sucking in air / fuel just fine. The attached pics are prior to cleaning. I did not take one after cleaning.

Then, I reinstalled everything and tried to give it another start. Still no fuel. I sprayed some fuel in the throat of the carb and it ran for a few seconds. I determined it was time to take the carb off and give it a thorough cleaning - without a carb rebuild kit.
 

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franklenz

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I pulled the carburetor, and thought I was going to give it a quick thorough cleaning. Turned out that the main inle was completely clogged with aluminum oxidation. I had to drill out the main pathways from the inlet, then from the front (it takes a hard right turn), then through the float seat. I had to use a very tiny drill bit and be very careful while drilling through and behind the float seat. I could not take out the float seat - it was seized into place and would not break free no matter what I soaked it in. I had to remove a led ball bearing from the front of the carb to drill the pathway that went from the front to the channel of the float seat pathway. The inlet takes two hard right turns before it gets to the float seat. Once clean, I packed the hole I drilled out with epoxy. (see pic - gray area on front of carb)




A trick I learned a long time ago - soak your carb in "lemon pine sol" to clean it. Then, rinse it with hot water with just a quick wipe down, and blow out/dry with compressed air. I often give it a quick and light spray with carb cleaner while blowing it off for a final clean. The carb will come out like brand new and your garage will smell clean from the lemon pine sol.




Once done drilling through the fuel intake pathways, it was quick to clean. I’ve never had a carb plug up like that before. I initially thought it was plugged up with a white sand. Not so. I put it all back together and tested that the float was seating correctly by blowing into the inlet with my mouth while flipping the carb upside down - then right side up. It stopped the air flow with no issues. I cut a new gasket, and put the carb back onto the engine for test run number 3.




That’s it for the carb clean - see attached pictures.
 

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franklenz

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Test number 3 or 4.... lost count. So, once the carb was cleaned, working, and back in place, I pumped some fuel into it, and BINGO.. It was alive! See the video on youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDOao__osno

Turned out that there was only one problem. It was blowing exhaust out of the base of the powerhead/engine block. I know that I inspected all of the gaskets, and pressure tested the crankcase and piston chambers. So, my initial thought was "dam, I blew out a gasket." Luckily it turned out not to be true.

But watch the video and see the pics - there was oil leaking down both sides of the lower unit where the exhaust was coming out. This had me gravely concerned..... I definitely did not want to take the whole block apart and replace all of the gaskets.
 

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franklenz

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Well... It turns out that when I replaced the engine block, I dry fitted it late one night, and left off the rubber boot that fits between the block and lower unit. The next day, I bolted the block to the lower, and never replaced this boot. I remembered this and I don't know how or why... I forget most stuff. But, I did recall that I cleaned out my work bench about three weeks ago, and I did recall seeing the rubber boot. I threw the boot away because I thought is was just a spare plumbing flange gasket. LIttle did I know that it was an important piece to this engine.

I searched all night for a part number, and all I could find was it referred to as a "boot" and number "18" in the attached picture (exploded view). I was having no luck on finding/purchasing a replacement. Even after emailing several people on ebay to have them look through their stock for the part.

Early in the morning, I took specific measurements of the area the boot would sit, and I searched for a "flange gasket" with similar dimensions on the internet. I came across a plumbing neoprene bathroom sink gasket that matched the dimensions perfectly - and my local Home Depot had 3 in stock. (see pic). Neoprene has a melting point of 500 degrees F. This was perfect. I purchased the gasket and quickly installed it. It fit perfectly.
 

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franklenz

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So, let's do another test run. I put everything back together and put it back in the barrel.

I put it in the barrel, pumped the fuel line full, and bingo!! running perfect. See video on youtube https://youtu.be/P0XJHxnAAHc . Then, I adjusted the carb to make it just a little better, put the covers back on, and called it done! This motor was a journey, and I now know the motor inside and out. Here is the video of it running with the cover on. Slow mow and a couple of throttle slaps.... it's a beast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VA-XRpBdoo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvoLaJN0Wb4 - sounds like a hot two stroke dirt bike.



Also, I forgot to mention earlier, I got two new condensers in the mail. The original ones tested ok, but I wanted to be safe and replace them. Not sure if they made a difference.

Please feel free to contact me with any questions about this motor. Thanks for reading.
 

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