84 Sea Ray Seville Cuddy - Floor work, new interior

Panoguy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
150
Hi:

Last fall, I decided that I wanted to freshen the interior of my (fairly new to me) 19' Seville cuddy - my first-ever boat. This is "a local" according to the papers that came with it (the original 1984 bill of sale!), it has never seen salt water, & has been wintered inside... it however was cradled all summer outside, so there's lots of UV damage and chalking.

It was my plan to just replace the aging carpeting & vinyl cockpit trim, remove the lounge seats in-favor of adjustable buckets, and removing the doghouse/jump seats - putting a bench just forward of the engine, & thereby gaining a usable (3' wide) sundeck in their place... and be on-my-way. I realize now that this was rather na?ve of me.

Well anyways, I purchased vinyl, carpeting & the seats (which are quite beautiful, by-the-way!), and waited for spring (NOW!)... I also did lots of research over the winter months on iBoats, the thing's that I'd likely encounter once I start tearing-out carpeting and seat boxes. Like everyone who purchases an almost 30-yr old craft, as I read, I came to realization that I was likely in for some challenges!

STRINGERS:
Sure enough, as you can see by the pictures attached - the stringers in my boat have seen better days. The wood is soft towards the top of the stringer, but seem to be in better shape as they near the hull floor. I'm certainly up for replacing them, but I'm wondering... again referring to the pictures attached, I cut 12" all around my gas tank well in-order to expose the polyurethane foam & explore. The foam is dry & solid, & most of the flooring plywood looks quite good, for it's age. (some issues with the starboard flooring, as you can see. BTW, there were no detectable soft spots in the floor before this project start).

QUESTIONS (finally!):
Can I just remove a couple-3 inches of foam from around the stringers, enough to enable removal/replacement? I see most everyone removes all foam (and floor plywood) and replacing it with blueboard foam, but this foam (and decking plywood) really looks pretty good.

Also, since my boat is a cuddy - should I tear-out the flooring (which would also include the couches) inside the cuddy also? The wider, more structural stringers seem to stop just forward (maybe 2") of the gas tank well - in-short... what should I do here?

Finally (for now), are there more stringers than what I've exposed - another set more toward the sides perhaps - or are there only 2 stringers under the floor?

It's my plan to document my adventure here, in this thread - please drop-by to visit, & let me know if I'm doing something horribly wrong! Let me thank in-advance anyone offering suggestion or advice, It's needed & very welcome - because I don't have a clue as to what I'm doing!

This is a scary thing for me, but I believe I will have a great little boat in the end, with your help.
 

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1man2beat

Cadet
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
26
Re: 84 Sea Ray Seville Cuddy - Floor work, new interior

I found your thread interesting I too am in the same position you are I have a 1986 caddy Deville that I'm attempting to do the same thing. However I am trying to get by with a partial restore for the summer I am fixing the stringers around the gas tank and replacing some decking.
 

Panoguy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
150
One question... ANSWERED!

One question... ANSWERED!

O-kaay, I decided to pull some of the foam out, around the port stringer, & it's wet on the bottom... NOW I see why everyone pulls it out!

Question I'm still pondering... will I need to pull-out all of the flooring inside of the cuddy - or is there perhaps some sort of dam or bulkhead forward of the main deck?
 

Panoguy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
150
The cutting continues

The cutting continues

Well, as the British say... "in for a Penny, in for a Pound", the more that I expose, the more that I realize that this ol' girl needs a complete deck rebuild. I haven't had the courage to drill test holes in the transom yet, I'll likely do that shortly, however.

The attached pictures show progress made today - most of the deck aft of the console has been removed, exposing the expanded polyurethane foam - all is wet. I've discovered that slicing the foam like a giant cake aids in removal. I've been using a hacksaw blade to slice blocks of foam, then a crowbar to release it from the hull - works quite well!

2013-4-14 - Jumpseat frames removed.jpg 2013-4-14 - Open decks wide shot.jpg 2013-4-14 - Wet foam under console-forward.jpg

I've also (finally) removed the padded sides, so now I can also start working on covering them with my new vinyl.
 

1man2beat

Cadet
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
26
Re: 84 Sea Ray Seville Cuddy - Floor work, new interior

well that looks very familiar. Yes I am sure your transom is very wet.
 

Panoguy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
150
The demo continues, I have some questions... anybody??

The demo continues, I have some questions... anybody??

The work continues whenever I have a chance (so much to do, so little time!). I'm beginning to wonder if my boat has had previous floor work done in it.

I've pretty-much exposed & "de-foamed" all of the hull bottom from transom to cabin. I'm entertaining the thought of only replacing the section of the stringers that are aft of the cuddy cabin - because I really hate to demo the entire cabin, which seems to be solid - but I don't want this to be "another one of those bad rebuilds". The pic below is taken inside the cabin - port side.

FloorAtCuddyUnderCushion.jpg

Anyone have opinions on this thought, I see several on these boards who've done this - is it a viable option, or bad idea?

Referring to the pic below, I've also discovered that there's a significant gap between the stringers (from the gas tank well, forward - everything from the front of the gas tank well to the transom seems attached to the hull floor). Is this how Sea Ray built these - or am I looking at a previous rebuild? FWIW, I plan on taking the advice of many on these boards and PB/glass/tabbing the entire new stringer (sections?) to the hull.

StringerGap.jpg

Finally for now, the pic below shows what I thought was a splice, but turned-out to be a nick in the stringer, probably made when I cut the floor out. I pulled the glass off the side of it & discovered that the double-width section is only a 1" width strip of wood glassed to top edge, alongside the stringer, with occasional wider reinforcements every 2-feet or-so.
StringerSplicePortSide.jpg

- this seems flimsy as hell to me, is this really how they built-'em?

Thanks in advance!
 

Panoguy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
150
Re: 84 Sea Ray Seville Cuddy - Floor work, new interior

(crickets)... Anybody???
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
16
Re: 84 Sea Ray Seville Cuddy - Floor work, new interior

Hey Panoguy! What your seeing in those areas where it doesn't touch the hull is how it came from Sea Ray.. Mine was the same exact way and I know for certain no work has ever been done on mine. you'll find that the stringers are also not bedded on the sides of the front motor mount! When I get to putting my stringers in I will be bedding them the entire length, also I am making mine out of two pieces of 1/2" ply for a 1" thick stringer instead of just the factory 1/2" so they wont have any of those spots where it's just two piece of wood butted up to each other. The way I see it, it won't be too much different than how it was engineered but it's going to be a hell of a lot stronger and more dependable!
 

cedarlattice

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
104
Re: 84 Sea Ray Seville Cuddy - Floor work, new interior

I'm working on a 72 myself. It looks like they built them the same way for a long time. To answer an earlier question, there are two outer stringers that run almost to where the cuddy starts. On mine they weren't attached to the hull It was like they spread a glob of glue the length of the boat and then missed it when they set the stringers. I think that the floor was preassembled and set int place. The only tabbing that was done on the main stringers was in the fuel tank compartment and in the cuddy
 

bsmithbum

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 10, 2011
Messages
42
Re: 84 Sea Ray Seville Cuddy - Floor work, new interior

As much as I'm sure you really don't want to, IMHO, I would get into the cabin as well. In one of the photos I saw what appeared to be a bulkhead right at the entrance to the cabin.(Please correct me if I am wrong) It appeared to have the start of rot on the starboard side of it as well. Beside you are already 3/4 the way there, and although cabin dis assembly might be a pain, I would do it while you are there so you don't ever have to re think whether or not you should have once it's all back together.

Then again, I can personally be very over picky at times so please take my opinion as just that:D
 

PCongiusta

Cadet
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
7
Re: 84 Sea Ray Seville Cuddy - Floor work, new interior

Hi, I have the same boat as you, mine is an 87, and I am considering doing exactly what you are doing next year.
Everyone tells me to buy another boat, but my boat has too much sentimental value to get rid of it.
How are you doing so far, also who did you get to make up the new decking. I would like to replace the I/O Carpet with fiberglass panels, just like the new boats of today.
This years project was to add a kicker mount because I don't trust the 25 year old motor to get me home every time, lol!
Here are some photos of this years kicker mount project, I hope to see some pictures of your finished project.
Paul C. photo3.jpgphoto2.jpgphoto1.jpg
 

Panoguy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
150
Re: 84 Sea Ray Seville Cuddy - Floor work, new interior

Hi, I have the same boat as you, mine is an 87, and I am considering doing exactly what you are doing next year.
Everyone tells me to buy another boat, but my boat has too much sentimental value to get rid of it.
How are you doing so far, also who did you get to make up the new decking. I would like to replace the I/O Carpet with fiberglass panels, just like the new boats of today.
This years project was to add a kicker mount because I don't trust the 25 year old motor to get me home every time, lol!
Here are some photos of this years kicker mount project, I hope to see some pictures of your finished project.
Paul C. View attachment 200136View attachment 200137View attachment 200138

Hi PCongiusta, thanks for dropping-by and the PM! I've been unable to work on the boat for a few weeks, but I've done quite a bit of work on it in the past few days (finally have power out in my shelter!) - post coming-up in a few minutes.

My boat is just plain-old beige, I really like your 2-tone scheme, I'm planning to gel some color onto my hull. Favor - could you post 360-degrees worth of pictures of the exterior of your boat? Thanks!!

I'm not even sure that my boat will see water this summer - so much to do! We'll see.
 

Panoguy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
150
Progressing...

Progressing...

Well, it's been a while since I've been able to work on the boat, but I finally have some progress worth posting.

DSCN4418 (Small).jpg DSCN4419 (Small).jpg DSCN4425 (Small).jpg

I pulled the engine and removed the transom. As you can see by the backside of these transom pieces - it certainly needed replacement. My next task will be gluing-up some 3/4" plywood to fabricate the center transom piece. For some reason, there was only 1 other "side" transom piece on the back of my boat (starboard, facing forward), to reinforce boarding platform. I'm going to glass in a port-side piece in place, for rigidity, symmetry, and in-case I decide to mount some other hardware over there.

DSCN4421 (Small).jpg DSCN4422 (Small).jpg

I also have the stringers pulled (aft of the cabin), and about 90% of the rough grinding completed. I still need to rip-out the motor mount and bulkheads for the fore/aft fuel tank space, but that'll be easy. I'm excited about finally being-able to construct - I'm tired of demolishing, it'll be great to start this build!

I can't seem to post any more pics on this post - so I'll continue in the next post... coming-right-up.
 
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Panoguy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
150
Progress... Continued!

Progress... Continued!

DSCN4423 Composite.jpg DSCN4426 (Small).jpg

A change that I want to make:
I've decided to raise my floor up by a couple of inches, the original floor included part of the V on either side, effectively making that deck space useless. This probably didn't matter with the doghouse/jumpseats and front lounge seats, but I'm replacing these with a bench in back and adjustable buckets up-front... I could use the extra flat floor space.

This will involve adding some extra stringers, outside of the originals.

QUESTION: Does anyone see any reason for me NOT to do this??

ONE OTHER QUESTION: the original floor had a section that could be pulled-out to gain access to the gas tank. I hated the way that felt... it bounced because of the 3-foot span between stringers. I'd like to seal that puppy up, covering the tank with a full sheet of plywood & putting in a small waterproof access to the wiring only. Does anyone see a problem with doing this?

Thanks!
 
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Panoguy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
150
Re: 84 Sea Ray Seville Cuddy - Floor work, new interior

Hey Panoguy! What your seeing in those areas where it doesn't touch the hull is how it came from Sea Ray.. Mine was the same exact way and I know for certain no work has ever been done on mine. you'll find that the stringers are also not bedded on the sides of the front motor mount! When I get to putting my stringers in I will be bedding them the entire length, also I am making mine out of two pieces of 1/2" ply for a 1" thick stringer instead of just the factory 1/2" so they wont have any of those spots where it's just two piece of wood butted up to each other. The way I see it, it won't be too much different than how it was engineered but it's going to be a hell of a lot stronger and more dependable!

Agreed! I'm going to do the same, nateshindig. It's amazing that the thing held-together at-all, isn't it?
Thanks for dropping-by!
 

Panoguy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
150
Re: 84 Sea Ray Seville Cuddy - Floor work, new interior

Thanks for dropping-by, bsmithbum - I appreciate it! I've thought long and hard about this, & I've decided to splice in right at the cabin. After getting your post, I drilled a few holes to test the condition of the wood up there, and things look quite dry (sawdust came-out white). The starboard side definately had more dark wood than the port side, but things weren't rotting till about a foot aft of the cabin. (except that bulkhead near the cuddy doors - that'll get replaced.

I hope that I don't live to regret my decision, but if I ever need to do work in the cuddy, I'd be sure to replace that part of the stringers then. As long as I have the boat, it will be trailored to where I boat, and stored under-cover. Time WILL tell, though!
 

Panoguy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jul 29, 2011
Messages
150
Stringer bedding - MAJOR confusion here!!

Stringer bedding - MAJOR confusion here!!

The more I read (and man-o-man, there's MUCH discussion about this subject on these boards), the more confused I get.

- Some say PL is great for bedding & fillets, others say that PL isn't great, because fiberglass won't stick to it.
- Some say that PL is great for bedding, but be sure to let it gas-out for at least 72 hours, then PB the fillets.
- Some say that the stringers shouldn't be bedded with PL at all - use PB or-else you're in for a world of trouble.
- Some say not to bed the stringers at-all, float them instead with tongue depressors & tab-in, to avoid hard spots.

It seems logical to me that if you use PL or PB to bed stringers, you're going to have the whole stringer length as a hard spot, because both materials get as hard as a rock... the main purpose for bedding the stringers to the hull is to have a perfect fit from stringer to hull, dispersing the stresses equally over the entire stringer/tabs to the hull, creating in-effect one very large hard spot - is this correct?

It also seems logical to me that having a slight air gap between the stringers & the hull will give you a slightly more flexible hull, but you'll get equal dispersion of hull stresses, thru the tabs - is this correct also?

Now that I'm nearing the time to place my stringers, I'm confused with what to do...
- Worried that my tabs will be weakened by the PL gassing, which I would think can go on for months.
- Worried that both PB & PL will be too hard, and cause hull stress (& that my assumption about the purpose of bedding is completely wrong).
- Worried that an air gap will cause the hull to flex to the point that it hits on the less-then-perfectly cut stringer bottom somewhere, causing stress on the hull at that/those point(s).

- Today I'm thinking that I should bed my stringers with PB, the same material that the hull is made from.
- Yesterday I was ready to purchase enough PL to bed the stringers in.
- The day before yesterday I considered... then discarded the air-gap method, because I'm sure that I'll never be able to cut my stringers that perfectly... but I'm not sure if this matters, because the tabs should prevent flex to the point of bottoming the stringer to the hull... unless some resin gets under the stringer while tabbing them in...

AHHHHHHHHH!!! - I'm so confused... HELP!!
 

Woodonglass

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
25,924
Re: 84 Sea Ray Seville Cuddy - Floor work, new interior

We talk about "Hard Spots" on the hull quite a bit here on iBoats. It's really not all that significant from what I understand from my research and study for boats under 30ft. The key is uniformity of contact with the hull. The use of PB is, IMHO, you best method to use for bedding your stringers. It provides uniformity and allows you to proceed quickly with the glassing of the stringers to the hull. Most MFG's don't even bed the stringers to the hull originally so anything you do will be better than what they did. Don't overthink or worry about it.
 

4Winns2

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
327
Re: 84 Sea Ray Seville Cuddy - Floor work, new interior

Looking good on progress on your Sea Ray. I'll be watching for more.
 

Panoguy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
150
Re: 84 Sea Ray Seville Cuddy - Floor work, new interior

Most MFG's don't even bed the stringers to the hull originally so anything you do will be better than what they did. Don't overthink or worry about it.

Thanks for the quick reply, Woodonglass - I do tend to overthink things, it drives the wifey crazy! I'll just PB the stringers in then.

Thanks for stopping-bu 4Winns2!
 
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