15 ft 66 Falcon transom/deck repair

LAndrus

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
81
Posted this on the Boat Builders forum but it was deleted before being posted.

Rebuilding the transom on my 15 ft 1966 Falcon. My question is, can Loctite PL poly construction adhesive be used to bed the new transom and a couple of stringer repairs. I'm on a strict budget and if I can use PL glue to bed these parts it will really help my budgetary concerns.

Thanks.
 

LAndrus

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
81
Re: 15 ft 66 Falcon transom/deck repair

Since no one responded to the original post, I assume that either bedding my transom and stringers is ok or no one has a clue. Another question, which resin is better to bond to the existing glass on the boat, poly or epoxy? I've heard that poly resin doesn't bond well chemically to old fiberglass.
 

jb93

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
267
Re: 15 ft 66 Falcon transom/deck repair

If you read around there is evidence of PL used on stringer bedding but almost everyone beds transom with poly mixed with cabosil and glass fibers to make a peanut butter consistency. Most on here refer to it as PB. The downside of PL is that it takes 72 hours to cure and you cannot make your PB fillets and start glassing until after it cures. With PB you can start glassing soon after it kicks and starts to get tacky. Most on here use poly, although it is true epoxy has a stronger bond. If budget is your concern then you will need to go with poly, as epoxy is 2-3x the cost. Post up some pics and you will probably get more responses. Here is a great reference to you from Woodonglass regarding layup of transom, stringer and deck.

DeckInstallation-1.jpg



Stringers

Stringers.jpg



Transoms(updated 7-18-2012)


transom.jpg



Pics of clamps I recommend for clamping an Outboard Style Transom when the top cap of the boat has been removed. I modified the construction of them just a bit using bolts instead of all thread. Takes a bit longer to build em but I like em better. Doing it this way I can use my 3/8" air drive ratchet to tighten em down which make is a lot faster to clamp em down. You need to be as fast as possible when you are using that much PB. Don't want it to set up on you before you get it clamped in place. Speed is of the essence!!!!:D

Untitled.png


transomClamps.jpg
 

jbcurt00

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
24,829
Re: 15 ft 66 Falcon transom/deck repair

No, polyester resin won't stick to old fiberglass that isn't properly prepped. If it's scuffed to expose the good, undamaged fiberglass, wiped down w/ acetone, the old glass should have no problem binding w/ the new glass work. Unprepped, or covered w/ paint or Zolotone (splatter paint looking finish many boat builders used to finish the interiors of vintage boats) there will likely be problems.

jb93 has posted details that are excellent 'how to's' and are from WoodOnGlass. If you use epoxy for any areas of your rebuild, it is very difficult to bond polyester resin or gelcoat to epoxy. And has a slower cure time then poly resin. PL will require 72hrs or more to finish off-gassing before it can be covered w/ either poly or epoxy.

Pix of your project will get you more traffic & responses. We're pix junkies, and often there are details in the pix that are relevant to the repair questions. As inexperienced boat rehab'ers, we often won't know what or how to ask questions so that the problem & our repair plans are thoroughly explained.

Welcome to the iboats dry dock
 

LAndrus

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
81
Re: 15 ft 66 Falcon transom/deck repair

Thank, I'll take some pics when the weather will allow this weekend.
 

LAndrus

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
81
Re: 15 ft 66 Falcon transom/deck repair

Took some pics to show my progress and seek some advice.
IMG110.jpg
Got the new transom cut and laminated together.
IMG113.jpg
Transom area...I think I've about got it prepped for the new transom. The only problem area I have is right in front of the drain hole where there is a fair amount of old resin.
Now for the stringer issues.
IMG111.jpgIMG114.jpg
As you can see in the pictures, the ends of the stringers near the transom have rotted out. I'm not sure how far the rot extends. I would like to repair the bad sections if possible. What would be the best way, short of replacing the entire stringer, to repair just the bad part of the stringer.

Thanks for your advice to this newbie
 

TruckDrivingFool

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
1,818
Re: 15 ft 66 Falcon transom/deck repair

First off welcome to iboats!

IMHO you need to do more grinding prep on the transom skin, you want an absolutely clean surface down to good glass no matter what you use to get a good bond.

Since wood will wick water the fungus that causes the rot will move with it. I'd bet you'll be better off replacing the entire stringer to make sure you have removed all the rot. That said you can do core sampling with a drill bit to look for rot, and can splice a section in.

As a novice I'm not sure this is a good option - I thought about doing the same thing but decide to just do it all and was glad since when I was demoing my AC the keel board though not wet like it was at the rear was still rotted clear up in the bow. I'd hate to get done and have problems down the road because I wasn't thorough enough and short cutted the rebuild.
 

jbcurt00

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
24,829
Re: 15 ft 66 Falcon transom/deck repair

+1 for TDF's suggestion of replacing the whole stringer, and for the reasons he pointed out.

Think of deck, transom & stringers as parts of a whole system. And in terms of work & replacing them consider it this way:

If you needed to repair a fender on the car, which would give you a better result:

spot sanding, repairing, sanding the repair, prepping & re-painting just the damage & the smallish area around it?

or

sanding the whole fender, repairing the damage, sanding the repair, then the whole fender, prepping the whole fender & repainting the whole fender?

Which yields the result that will look better longer & that will last much longer before the problem returns?

Now imagine those repairs are being made to 3 of the 4 main structural elements of the car, and when in use you'll be in the water if a problem arises. The hull, transom, stringers & deck all work as a system to provide the structure of your boat. You can't just pull over when there's a problem while underway in a boat. As the owner, anyone boarding your boat, passively expects it to be seaworthy, and that you've done everything in your power & reach to ensure it's maintained & safely operated. That doesn't mean that carp doesn't happen, it does.

The least of my concerns would be how much more time & money it would involve to replace the stringers entirely. I am slowly putting mine back together because I have to spread the costs out over time.

It is a whole lot of work to remove the deck, replace the transom, make small repairs to the stringers cover them back with a whole new deck and not know that the stringer problems have totally & completely been resolved.

That's my $0.02 & is IMHO...
 

LAndrus

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
81
Re: 15 ft 66 Falcon transom/deck repair

I was actually doing some additional grinding earlier today...bought myself a saws all so I could start cutting the stringers out...haven't completely removed the deck yet...that comes after I get the transom reinstalled.
 

LAndrus

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
81
Re: 15 ft 66 Falcon transom/deck repair

I have the new transom just about ready to install. Next question, can I use PL to glue the new transom to the hull shell itself? I know that PB is probably the best material to use, but can PL be used and then use PB to bed the transom.

Thanks
 

jbcurt00

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
24,829
Re: 15 ft 66 Falcon transom/deck repair

I have the new transom just about ready to install. Next question, can I use PL to glue the new transom to the hull shell itself? I know that PB is probably the best material to use, but can PL be used and then use PB to bed the transom.

You can use PL to bed the transom TO the fiberglass transom skin of the hull. There is a fairly long cure time you'll need to wait before you use any PB around the edges.

When you asked about using PB to bed the transom above, you were referring to the fillets around the edges of the plywood? You'll need to wait for the PL to cure, before proceeding......
 

LAndrus

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
81
Re: 15 ft 66 Falcon transom/deck repair

understand that I have to give the PL time to cure before bedding the transom in. Just wanted to make sure that PL would work to glue the glass covered wood to the fiberglass hull.
 

jbcurt00

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
24,829
Re: 15 ft 66 Falcon transom/deck repair

yes you can use PL
 
Top