Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

[jbcurt00]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

The round base may be harder to cover w/ glass, and be much harder to trim a 45*, a smooth fillet w/ PB would be easier...

I really like the way Friscoboater's seat bases turned out, square w/ the 45*.....
Jay's:

At 200SqIn, they might be a tad smaller & serve the purpose equally well, I think Jay's had the 45* edge land just beyond the seat pedestal base, maybe 1" smaller each way on the square base, @13" instead of 14"... If you're worried about flexing the deck below the bases, you might add a 2nd layer to the deck's backside before you install the deck....

Are you using 2 layers of 3/4" ply to make the bases?
45* on a 1.5" thick base would be back the 1.5" you marked on the perimeter... Right?

EDIT: looking at the pix again, it looks like you've got about the same footprint base as Jay's...

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

The round base may be harder to cover w/ glass, and be much harder to trim a 45*, a smooth fillet w/ PB would be easier...

I was wondering about that. I haven't had too much trouble draping 1708 over curves, but getting the stuff lay flat and smooth might be tricky. Plus, I really have no idea how I'd cut the boards on a 45 degree angle.

I really like the way Friscoboater's seat bases turned out, square w/ the 45*.....

I agree. In fact, until I saw his, I really thought I'd just beef up the deck and flush mount mine. His look really nice, don't they?

At 200SqIn, they might be a tad smaller & serve the purpose equally well, I think Jay's had the 45* edge land just beyond the seat pedestal base, maybe 1" smaller each way on the square base, @13" instead of 14"... If you're worried about flexing the deck below the bases, you might add a 2nd layer to the deck's backside before you install the deck....

I think I remember that Jay's were cut on a sharper angle than 45 degrees, because of a miscalculation when he cut the pieces to size. I'm not sure if I need to worry about the deck flexing or not... the old pedestals were just lag screwed to the half-inch-thick deck and there were pretty solid. In any case, it's too late, as I've already tabbed in the deck and foamed the hull.

Are you using 2 layers of 3/4" ply to make the bases?
45* on a 1.5" thick base would be back the 1.5" you marked on the perimeter... Right?

Exactly, compliments of Pythagoras!

Jim

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Well now that you've done the deck & foaming once, it'll be much easier to redo it a 2nd time & add the backer.. :facepalm: :faint2:

Yeah, ok, maybe not.......... On this boat.

A router w/ a 45* chamfer bit could do it, but only 1 3/4" board at a time, and it wouldn't be easy.

Square will come off a table saw or circular saw much much easier.... The custom carpet laid in around the bases is easier to pattern @square too, and looks great

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Well now that you've done the deck & foaming once, it'll be much easier to redo it a 2nd time & add the backer.. :facepalm: :faint2:

NOT funny! That deck's not going nowhere!

Yeah, ok, maybe not.......... On this boat.

She Who Must Be Obeyed would not be amused at even the mention of another boat!

A router w/ a 45* chamfer bit could do it, but only 1 3/4" board at a time, and it wouldn't be easy.

Square will come off a table saw or circular saw much much easier.... The custom carpet laid in around the bases is easier to pattern @square too, and looks great

I thought about a router, but it would be slow going... I also thought of a band saw, with the table tilted 45 degrees, then I could build a jig that would allow me to spin a piece of plywood like an LP record... but it's sounding pretty complicated for something no one except me will notice. And unless it's perfectly round, I'll just notice the flaw...

I've glued together (with Titebond) a couple of scrap pieces of the same kind of plywood I'll use when I make the bases. I want to see how well my table saw cuts thru the wood. It should handle it, but 1 1/2" of Aurauco cut on a 45 degree angle is a lot of wood to cut thru. I want to make sure it doesn't hang or bind up when cutting. The saw handled the 3/4" cut on an angle OK, so I don't expect problems, but I want nice straight cuts.

Thanks for your thoughts, and let' have no more talk of taking up my new deck!

Jim

 

[jsturvey]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

I think I remember that Jay's were cut on a sharper angle than 45 degrees, because of a miscalculation when he cut the pieces to size.

I know I'm a bit late to the conversation. I believe friscoboaters seat pedestals were cut to 30* because of the miscalculation, but I think we can all agree they still came out looking good.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

I know I'm a bit late to the conversation. I believe friscoboaters seat pedestals were cut to 30* because of the miscalculation, but I think we can all agree they still came out looking good.

Absolutely.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

You could always build Tall pedestals like mine and save a bunch of money...

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

How wide are those at the base, WOG? Do you detail the construction of those in your Flamingo thread? I looked when I was first thinking about these bases, but I couldn't find them...

Jim

UPDATE: Just found them. Pretty impressive! I'm not sure I'd take something like that on ... lots of compound angles. They sure look nice, though.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

The ski locker on this boat is just a hole cut in the deck that has a cover that fits into the hole. The cover has an aluminum flange that allows the cover to sit flush to the floor, but the hole in the deck is just that: a hole with no trim around the edge.



I don't like this because any water that lands on the deck and runs into the ski locker hole can run under the cover and then travels over the edge of the hole and onto the underside of the deck.

In house construction, surfaces like this (a roof edge, for example) that have water running over them often have a drip edge, so that water cannot follow the underside of the surface, but will hit an edge that causes water to drip off.



Has anyone see something like this for this kind of hatch in a deck? Or any ideas of how to make something?

Jim

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

If you have a table saw, you can build those bases. Really not that hard.

 

[jsturvey]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

That's a big ski door. Have you thought about using 5200 as an adhesive for the aluminum flange?

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

That's a big ski door. Have you thought about using 5200 as an adhesive for the aluminum flange?

Sorry, I wasn't too clear in describing it, I think. The aluminum flange is part of the cover for the ski locker:



The boat didn't come with any sort of flange around the opening in the deck itself. I've tried searching iboats.com to see if I could find something that I could add, but I've not had any luck yet. I plan to seal the area and underside with resin, but I'd like to find some way to get water to drip into the locker rather than run along the underside of the deck. Not a great design as it is...

The opening is about 19" x 32"... is that larger than usual? It's a weird locker; it's pretty useless for skis (not long enough to fit them in easily). I thought about just enclosing it and glassing over it, but we really need the storage space (for fenders, etc.) even if we don't cram the skis in there.

Jim

 

[73Chrysler105]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

On the Ski Locker you might be able to get aluminum edge molding for the sole and then the cover aluminum would fit into the aluminum trim surrounding the hole.

On the Seat bases the round bases although will be tougher to build will look nicer, have the added benefit of no stub toe angles and would actually be stronger because it would have no sharp/hard edges of attachment. Meaning the distribution of force is more evenly dispersed across the rounded edge of the circular base. One thing you could do is cut each section of the base and router that 3/4" section and then go to the next section and router that section. Then glue the sections together. In that fashion you could actually do three tiered sections with jam nuts in the bottom section and the top section the inner circle being just slightly larger than the base of the pedestal. A square base although it is probably plenty strong has sharp corners and those sharp corners can not distribute the force of a load as evenly as a circular base can, A load on the sides is well distributed but a load across the corners in theory could cause it to pull up or weaken the bond. now all that being said is it something to worry about probably not. I would still go with circular bases for aesthetic reasons

 

[HalfFish5087]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Jim, this is rather crude, but I believe it would satisfy your worry of water running under the deck from the ski locker. I would simply run a bead of caulk around the under side of the deck. I would also put a bead in at the seam in the corner. When the water tries to run under it would just drip from the bead of chalk.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Jim, this is rather crude, but I believe it would satisfy your worry of water running under the deck from the ski locker. I would simply run a bead of caulk around the under side of the deck. I would also put a bead in at the seam in the corner. When the water tries to run under it would just drip from the bead of chalk.

That's actually a pretty good idea... a big bead would do it, I think. Thanks for the idea!

We had a snow day today, so I was able to do some work on the boat. I finished all my prep to glass the deck.

A lot of the peanut butter had shrunk where I filled gaps around the wood pucks (that were cut out for foaming) and along seams between pieces of the deck. Then I ground down all the high spots, the little pokies sticking up from some of the tabbing, and the occasional blob of PB or resin stuck to the deck. Then I vacuumed everything up and washed the surfaces to be glassed with acetone.

I also cut pieces to put down two layers of CSM. (I'm going to cover the CSM with 6 oz. cloth, but I'm going to wait to cut it until I see how the CSM goes down. I almost forgot what a pain CMS is to work with. It seems like it just falls apart if you look at it wrong. Anyway, it's ready to go in.

I'm itching (no pun intended) to get the deck glassed in. That will feel like a big milestone in getting this boat finished.

Jim

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Got most of my first layer of CSM on the deck tonight. I couldn't do the entire deck because I'm pretty cramped in my garage... I'd have no good way to climb out of the boat if I covered the whole deck. Anyway, I covered the deck from the forward edge of the bilge to the front of the cockpit.

I swear, every time I work with CSM, I'm reminded how much I detest the stuff, especially when trying to maneuver larger pieces. It falls apart, it shreds when you touch it to tacky, resin-covered surfaces, and it's really hard to reposition. If I were starting over, or if, God forbid, I ever do another boat, I would seriously consider skipping CSM and just using 1708. For a smallish project like this boat, it would easily be worth the extra cost of 1708 to not have to fuss with CSM.

For the meantime, I'm going try using smaller pieces of CSM even if it means I have some additional spots to grind or sand later.

Overall, the stuff I did tonight looks OK, but I think I'm going to have to fix a couple spots where the CSM shredded and balled up on me. I'm hoping to have some time to get back at it tomorrow.

Jim

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Where did you get your CSM? What weight is it? How are you trying to position it? It's ALL about the proper technique.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Where did you get your CSM? What weight is it? How are you trying to position it? It's ALL about the proper technique.

It's 1.5 oz. CSM from US Composites. I'm sure my problems are due to my lack of experience. I just find the stuff to be pretty unforgiving, especially compared to 1708.

Jim

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Yep Cloth is MUCH easier to work with. The styrene in the Resin breaks down the fibers in the Mat and can make it go squirrely on you. When the surface is still tacky from the resin I use a dry roller and roll the mat onto the surface taking care to not get wrinkles. I roll from the Center out. Once it's in place, I then pour the resin into the middle again and always roll out towards the edges. Don't overoll it once it goes Clear your good to go. Overrolling is usually the biggest error beginners make. Also use less resin. It's always easy to add more but hard to take it off.

 

[HalfFish5087]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Jim, glad things are coming along for you. What thickness plywood did you go with for your transom? Also, I'm assuming you wrapped your transom in CSM and put two layers on after installing. One more, how thick was your hull after all the grinding?